BrownTown talks memes, mass mobilization, and more with Camila Cuevas (AKA @ComradeCami), Chilena expat living in Florida, USA. She uplifts liberation struggles and provides social movement resources through memes and social media via what she calls "thirst trapping the masses into class consciousness." The team dissects our current moment in the social media landscape, the influence of TikTok on Palestine and other issues, how to push radical politics in a policed tech-world controlled by billionaires, and breakdown their favorite political memes. Originally recorded April 17, 2024.
BrownTown talks memes, mass mobilization, and more with Camila Cuevas (AKA @ComradeCami), Chilena expat living in Florida, USA. She uplifts liberation struggles and provides social movement resources through memes and social media via what she calls "thirst-trapping the masses into class consciousness." The team dissects our current moment in the social media landscape, the influence of TikTok on Palestine and other issues, how to push radical politics in a policed tech-world controlled by billionaires, and breakdown their favorite political memes. Originally recorded April 17, 2024.
"Dude. They have all the money in the world to make propaganda…AND WE GOT MEMES!" Follow Camila on Instagram @comradecami (backup @issacommiemami), Twitter, and listen to the 805 Uncensored Podcast.
Mentioned in episode:
Political meme/video accounts to follow:
CREDITS: Intro soundbite from @seansvv on TikTok. Outro music Harlem Shake by Baauer. Audio engineered by Kiera Battles.
--
Bourbon ’n BrownTown
Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | Site | Linktree | Patreon
SoapBox Productions and Organizing, 501(c)3
Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | Site | Linktree | Support
BrownTown talks memes, mass mobilization, and more with Camila Cuevas (AKA @ComradeCami), Chilena expat living in Florida, USA. She uplifts liberation struggles and provides social movement resources through memes and social media via what she calls "thirst trapping the masses into class consciousness." The team dissects our current moment in the social media landscape, the influence of TikTok on Palestine and other issues, how to push radical politics in a policed tech-world controlled by billionaires, and breakdown their favorite political memes. Originally recorded April 17, 2024.
INTRO
Soundbite from @seansvv on TikTok
[00:00:51.610]
“The Senate just passed a bill that would effectively ban TikTok in 270 days if Biden signs it into law. Now, I know a lot of you are panicking. You have questions. Let's lock in. I'm gonna answer them for you. Number one, if President Biden signs this into law, can this be challenged legally? Yes. And a lot of people have hinted at who's going to challenge. There are different organizations, but TikTok themselves has hinted at, hey, we're going to challenge this. The initial argument of the TikTok ban potentially violating First Amendment rights has left a lot of people divided and confused. There's also a bunch of people who say they're in favor of the TikTok ban and that the bill doesn't necessarily violate First Amendment rights of people because it doesn't stifle our speech. It's important to know that not just the wording of the bill would be challenged, they would challenge the bottom line of the bill if it stifles speech because it's functional in that way, it can still be challenged. That nuance confuses a lot of people. And if you want me to break that down in a future video, let me know in the comments below.”
BODY OF EPISODE
[00:01:37.750] - David
I'd like to welcome everyone to another installment of Bourbon 'n BrownTown. It's your boy David, coming to you from Harambe Studios in Chicago, Illinois. Where it's April, and so we're getting teased of sunshine. We get teased with rain and we getting teased with sunshine. But as always with my boy, Caullen. How you doing, Caullen?
[00:01:55.180] - Caullen
Teased, blue balls, son. It's not fair. No, you just gotta know. You just gotta know. If you're in Chicago, really in the midwest in general, it's like, the weather could change in ten minutes. You can't trust it until a certain month. So it's just gotta- people are like, oh, it's a nice day. I'm like, don't get comfortable. They gonna gaslight you. Girls gonna gaslight you, watch out! To your question, though, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. Came into this month with some money woes. I was like, alright, I need to strap up and be a little tight this couple weeks, and I have been. Then we got paid for a project- shout out New Root. And, you know, we're doing okay.
[00:02:29.700] - Caullen
So we also haven't recorded in a minute. And so I'm kind of like, as I'm talking, I don't feel as nervous as I thought I would. But it's interesting being in the hot seat again and with headphones on today cause we got a virtual recording happening with a virtual guest. And so, don't always do this. So I'm like, oh, man, it's a new space- or a new... I'm angled differently in the room. I gotta see a screen and you so it's a little weird. But we're doing okay. How are you doing?
[00:02:54.920] - David
Yo! We're doing well. I think, as a lifelong Chicagoan, I think my biochemistry has adapted with the seasons. And so I'm finally in a motion where it's like, April's been strong, whether that is rainy ass days or cold ass days or really, really hot days for no reason. And so I think I've mimicked the seasons a lot in Chicago these last few months, for sure. I'm actually thinking about, when was the last time we recorded? And I can't think about it. So that means it's been too long. It's been too long. But I've been really, really excited to get back on the mic, talk to the peoples, and get into a conversation like that we have today.
[00:03:37.350] - Caullen
Well, I think what's important to kind of know is that, this is somewhat of a sequel, second installment episode. We talked with Sophie Elizabeth James a couple years ago just about making, I would say, media in the most expansive way, also "content" in some capacity on the interwebs and doing that, for short, for liberation. Or just something that's overtly political and aligned with our ideologies and the comrades. But how do you do that in a way that's fun, exciting, and down to earth and also leans into all the things the Internet has to offer as far as comedy and poking fun at pop culture, making references that are really niche and that whole world thing has blown up in the past couple years. Past several years, you could say. And so I'm curious to talk about it, baseline.
[00:04:23.930] - Caullen
We mentioned before, too, but also with a homie who does this shit. And does it in a very unique way, in a way that I've always thought was all the things I just named and more. But I've never actually thought about or talked deeply with her about how this came to be and the why behind everything that does matter and stuff we do. And so I'm really excited to talk more, ask more questions, and think about how I engage with memes, Instagram, TikTok, social media, and how I don't. And the toxic parts of that for everybody and for these huge tech giants who- we know who these motherfuckers are and we know how these systems work, but still use them for liberation, right? And the paradox there. And what we're okay with and what we're not okay with and how we navigate those. I think... It's nothing that's going to end very soon, unfortunately. And so I'm curious how folks I love and trust and care about and make awesome shit, how they think about that as well. So that's kind of where I'm coming in.
[00:05:20.550] - David
Yeah. So exciting. I mean, and I know we've, on Bourbon 'n BrownTown, talk about the Internet always taking W's. The Internet rarely takes an L. And so I think I've been really excited to do a conversation really, really focused on the meme culture, right? I think we've had conversations about like, how does advertising deal with these things? And how does, you know, educational systems deal with these things? But now we have a moment where like, how does a niche group of people, right, because whether it's TikTokers or Tweeters or Xers, whatever the fuck they're calling them nowadays.
[00:05:49.748] - Caullen
Tweeters. Zeet-ers.
[00:05:50.810] - David
It gets into these kind of micro-esque communities. And I think I'm excited to go into under the layer. And even then it's like, kind of talk with someone who does it firsthand. So I'm excited.
[00:06:05.860] - Caullen
Yeahhhh. So speaking of, we have with us today Camila Cuevas. Camila is a Chilena expat living in the USA who is thirst trapping the masses into class consciousness. Let's motherfucking go. Camila, how are you?
[00:06:22.000] - Camila
Hey, I'm doing well, thank you. I am currently in Chile, in the south, very south of Chile. So very, in the southernmost of the world, pretty much. So I'm back home, and it feels great, and it's a lovely day out. It's sunny and it's beautiful, and like you guys were talking about, we just- well, I live in Florida, so it's very sunny there, but it's not comparison to Chicago. But, coming back home, it always just feels like coming back home. Like, you can't beat it. I've been in Florida for 20 something years, 21 years, and still when I come back, it's coming back home, not vice versa. When I'm going back to Florida, oh, I'm going back to Florida. And I've been living there for so long, it's still like, ugh man, I'm going back to Florida. When I'm here, I'm like, I'm coming back home. So I'm feeling good. Yeah. With my family, it's good, good stuff. And it's a beautiful day. Thank you for having me, guys. We've been in contact for a while, and we've been friends for a while, so it's really wonderful to be talking to you all and I look forward to this.
[00:07:51.240] - David
I think, to just get straight into it and let people who may be unfamiliar with you or some of your work, Caullen read "thirst trapping the masses into class consciousness" and that's the tagline for your instagram, right? Could you expand on that a little bit and maybe tell folks a little bit more of what it is that you do exactly in the independent media creation of it all?
[00:08:11.040] - Camila
Yeah, sure. That one, I came up with that one not too long ago. And it was just something... Because the thing about social media is if you post solely about politics, usually your viewers and the algorithm, it will start going down. It won't get as many views and you won't get as exposure. So what I've come to find out through doing this is that if I sneak in a quick thirst strap and it gets a lot of reactions from people, the algorithm will pick it up and it'll do- the rest of the content will do really well. So with that being said, the class consciousness thing is just kind of educating people to be class conscious with the struggle; to learn about the struggle, and to learn about class and solidarity and how we can support one another and how we should be supporting one another. And yeah. So I try to take a lot of this not that seriously because I think you kind of have to, you can't just be serious all the time. And that's why I made that tagline. And I don't know, I guess people like it. I've heard good reactions from it so far, so I'm sticking with it for now.
[00:09:53.110] - Caullen
If y'all listening to the episode want to check out some thangs while we're doing this- @comradecami on Instagram, peep it. Or get the backup account, too, because Instagram police be out here. So issacommiemami. That's also an @ you can look at right now as you listen to the episode. It's on the episode notes, as it always will be. Thanks for expounding on that. I think I saw it for the first time maybe shortly after you put it up. And I was like, that's amazing. And you're right, it's like: Thirst trap, Palestine. Thirst trap, Sudan. Thirst trap, Flint, Michigan. You know what I mean? It's always the pattern can get them.
[00:10:30.230] - Caullen
Well, I do have a question about that. But before we get too much in the weeds, I would love for myself, too, and just listeners, I'm curious about your background- your home being Chile coming to the United States, Florida particularly. That in itself, I think, is interesting. But also just like, we talk a lot in this show as far as how we were either "radicalized", how we came into conscious ourselves, how our identities kind of shaped that; and then also you're making explicitly "leftist" content on the Internet. That's also not something everyone shares, unfortunately. So I'm just curious about how your identity and politics shape how you be in the world, but also why you make the content you make and why you care about it? And how your experience informs that.
[00:11:15.920] - Camila
Sure. Thank you for that question. Well, I moved to Florida- I didn't really have much of a choice in the matter, I was still a kid, I was a teenager. I moved there with my mom because she had family there. So not a lot of say, you know. You kind of do what your mom tells you and you go where your mom tells you. So that's how I ended up in Florida. I've been there for 21 years. And like I said before, I still haven't really found a sense of community there, even though I've been there for so long and around the same zone and everything. And so it's been challenging in that sense. Maybe... I'm in a part of Florida where- I'm not in Miami. A lot of people immediately think of Miami when you say Florida. But where I live is very different. It's very... I want to say kind of northern Georgia, more than Miami. But a suburban area. But, yeah, people- I've never kind of had a community, it's kind of hard to build one. Especially when you are a little bit different. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got there.
[00:12:53.340] - Camila
And then how I was radicalized. I don't know. I think I've mentioned this to you or, you know this, but I studied psychology for my bachelor's degree. And then from that, I started working with families and especially with kids that were abused and in the system. Or sometimes not even abused, neglected. So I saw how this system evolved around kids, and I was able to put some type of picture there. And then after that, I started working as a probation officer. So I worked as a probation officer for two years, and that's how I saw how the justice system. "Justice" right? In America and how awful and dehumanizing and racist and all these negative things was. And I initially got that job because I thought that I was going to be helping to reintegrate these people into society. Which is something that I wanted to do; work with a population where I could assist them to better themselves and be a part of the community and the society and do better, so those were my intentions. But the job doesn't let you do that. The job is very much so- it's very much made so people will violate their probation. It's very easy to get caught in that loop of violating probations because there are so many standards that they have to abide by. That it's even hard for us to maybe have everything that they need to go and according to their probation. So I wasn't really doing that.
[00:15:13.980] - Camila
And I saw these things, and then I made the connection with working with children, how that was like a loop. And it's kind of, all of it, is kind of a cycle where you have certain populations that are targeted by the government you can say. How they are first targeted for not having maybe enough money to feed their kids or properly care for them. So then the kids become part of the system. And they get taken away from the parents. And then the issues go from there, because once you're part of the system and the child- I can't think of the word... The, like, the child services, right?
[00:16:23.020] - Camila
Once they take you, it's very hard to come out of that. And instead of the government helping families keep their kids by like, oh, they don't have enough resources. Or they don't have like, the mom doesn't have studies to- doesn't have money to study or money to a babysitter or bring their kids to childcare. Or they don't have food or they don't have a house over their head, they take the kids instead of providing them with solutions. They take the kids away and then place them in other homes where they have to then give money to the other people to care for the kids. And so it becomes like a vicious cycle. Then you see a lot of the same kids end up in juvie. And then later become part of the probation world. So it's kind of a whole cycle that then revolves. And those people in the probation world, then they have kids, and the whole cycle starts over again. So it's kind of like a loop.
[00:17:40.120] - Camila
And I was able to see that and see how we were not helping and how it was almost impossible to help as a probation officer. Not maybe because the people working didn't want to, but because of the laws of your job. What required you to do like, that you weren't able to help because the bodies would make more money for the- would make more profit for the people that own the jails and the prisons when they're in, right? If they're out, being a part of society, those beds are empty. How are the people who own the prisons gonna profit out of that? So that's a big part of how I became radicalized and how it opened my eyes to what America was. And then seeing the different- the obvious different sentences depending on people's skin color. And the way people were treated depending on the lawyer they were able to afford. And everything that they were granted because they had more money or status.
[00:19:10.750] - Caullen
First, thanks for sharing all that as far as the background as that role you had. And I think a lot of folks come into- I guess, roles like that, or roles that we know now are part of this larger system, carceral system, especially. Like, oh, I want to do a good thing, I want to do this. I want to be a probation officer. I guess we've heard before like, I want to be a cop. Someone to be good to the world. It's like, well, that's not how you do it. But it's like how- and seeing it firsthand, understanding how, to your point, folks may come into it with those good intentions, sure. But impact over intention, then also, this is a system with a very, very clear, defined goals. Criminal injustice system, criminal punishment system. It's working how it's designed to work, as we know. It doesn't need to be fixed or reformed. So I'm curious how that- from that experience, from being Chilean, too- which I think matters in this, too, the history of the US and Chile and the global south- how you got from that to where you are now? And some of the comrades you collaborate with now and the institutions and places you do uplift and some of the work that you do now. And then put it on top of that, all the Internet and social media and stuff, too. I'm curious how that actually worked.
[00:20:29.900] - Camila
Yeah. So being Chilean, everybody knows- or everybody should know at least, that Salvador Allende was a democratically-elected socialist president and then he was coup'd by Pinochet with the backing, full backing of the US, right? And then thousands of people were tortured and disappeared. And the country was under a dictatorship for many, many years even under- I was born under a Pinochet. So there is obvious- there was always that knowledge in the back of my head. But once you start putting the two together, how everything works and how the US has done this throughout so many countries, you know, once you start finding out, oh my God, they did this here and here and here, and you're like, oh wow, okay.
[00:21:37.919] - Caullen
It's like Whack-A-Mole.
[00:21:39.570] - Camila
Yeah.
[00:21:40.098] - Caullen
Whack-A-Coup.
[00:21:40.170] - Camila
No wonder why they're treating their people back home the way they are, because they want to keep certain populations down. And they do that very well. They have been doing that very well. But so I think it was maybe like, COVID, I have a toddler, so I wasn't doing a lot. I was with my baby at home and I started just getting in this world on instagram. But I was always on Reddit reading a lot. There is all this niche people and different sites, and each of them have their own little world. And I started on Reddit and seeing some content, and then I would kind of post it to my story on Instagram, and it would get good reactions. But I would always be too afraid to post on my regular, you know.
[00:22:51.120] - Caullen
Post on the grid.
[00:22:52.730] - Camila
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. On the grid. So I was just like, no, I'm having anxiety. What about if it does bad? So then I think someday I was just like, I just do it because people were like, oh, can I share this? Can I share that? I'd be like, yeah, you can share it, that's what I posted for. So that's how I started sharing content on Instagram a lot from Reddit because I've been a Redditor for a long time. And it's taken off, and it's doing better than I thought. And sometimes I'm like, I don't even post content in a week or so, but my comrades will, and they will tag me and they will collaborate with me, so my name keeps being shown around. And I think that has helped a lot to kind of help me, give me a boost.
[00:23:52.160] - Caullen
And I kind of want to bring you in David, as far as when either you were kind of first introduced. Not to Camila's account, just to accounts like hers that have funny, direct, boisterous political memes that align with your politics. I think of abolitionist politics, leftist politics. Calling out imperialism across the board, shit like that. I hope, if you're listening, you're scrolling through so you get a better idea of what we're talking about. But I did want to bring you in, David, as far as the digital age, from the Facebook to YouTube being new to the past couple years to now; and then how you've been engaging and then with content like that. And also this idea of the age of spin. That's a common thing we've kind of brought back on different episodes, not even related to each other, too.
[00:24:39.040] - David
Yeah. I don't know. I think, I've definitely been part of the community of folks who probably get things a week or two after it's gone viral or whatever. And I think it really starts with Facebook, and I think it got to a point a couple years ago where people would be like, they tweet it, and then three weeks later it's on Facebook type situation. And that's when I'm first engaging with it and sharing, as if no one's ever seen this, this is fucking hilarious. So clearly, we're not- we've never been the one in the loop. I think since doing Soapbox stuff, a little bit more intentional, I think it's like you think of a red car, you see more red cars. So it's like, kind of that same scenario where it's like, Soapbox ourselves we don't create that type of content. Or media. Even though we've joked that we'd be a really good- we could do a good spin-off of just straight memes from Soapbox.
[00:25:33.510] - David
I think, oftentimes, what I think the meme world does very well is break things down without diluting it. In terms of, yeah, oftentimes it's like... Oftentimes it helps to know context, but oftentimes it's not necessary for a meme to necessarily work. And so I'm trying to think of specific examples that either we've known folks who use stuff for organizing tactics, or strategies in terms of pinpointing specific people or politicians, etc etc etc.
[00:26:07.000] - Caullen
I kind of want to get everyone to, like, I don't know, explain their favorite meme. Or kind of give listeners a visual of what's something we're kind of talking about. But I'm thinking of, like... I'm thinking of folks who have listened to this show before and know we had Bring Chicago Home legislation in Chicago to... If you buy a home, take away some of that money, if your home's over a million dollars and putting that towards homelessness. Unfortunately, it didn't pass. And we're not happy about it. But when we were campaigning for that legislation in Chicago to help alleviate homelessness, which is objectively a good thing, folks used a Spiderman meme. The two Spiderman's pointing at each other, and one Spiderman was like, "ending homelessness" and the other Spiderman was, "Bring Chicago Home"- or, "voting for Bring Chicago Home". And it's like, simple, political, true. You know what I mean?
[00:26:51.690] - Caullen
And I think lots of times- sometimes, too, if there's a big event or something, or something's happened in the news, and I didn't see it happen or didn't get notified on instagram. I see a meme that's referring to it and I'm like, alright, I know this is talking about something. And I look at this meme for 2 seconds and I understand- I know what happened. And it's from Camila, or it's from blackleftist. Or it's from fucking buddyhead. And it's like, okay, this is someone I also trust and share their politics. And so, this is funny, I don't even know what happened, but I do. And then I read about it, and I'm like, oh, I know, this is exactly what I thought, right? Or memes that are ongoing. There's the- there's death, the Grim Reaper. He's in that little machine, the claw machine. And for years, I've been waiting for Henry Kissinger to die, I'm sure others have, too. And so he would be like, Is Kissinger even in here?? He's getting upset. You see it every month and then Kissinger finally died, and he's like, finally! He got the Kissinger thing. So it's like, I think memes are just an insanely interesting site of politics, of expression, of art, of pop culture, longitudinally across genres and niches. And it's just like, it's fascinating to me. It's just the sociologist of me is coming out.
[00:28:10.630] - Caullen
And I want to know your guy's favorite meme stuff, too. But what we do have to understand- that I forget about sometimes- that it is a tool like anything else. And Nazis and the right use memes, too. I don't see those as much, but I'm like, fuck. They do the same thing, right? And so it's just like, I'm curious how they see our stuff. But also, I think one thing we forefront on this show, at least I try thinking about in the work we do and just being in the world thinking through things is like, we're right. And we're doing it for, not only our people, but for people in general and for humanity. And I think when we talk about and critique death-making institutions and nation states and imperialism and all that, it's like, we're doing that because we love people. And that's- our memes are better because they're actually uplifting good shit versus the Nazis and Zionists. And so just that tool basket has always interested me.
[00:29:04.170] - Caullen
Where it's like, Oh, they're doing this, too. Using the same- similar techniques that we do, that advertisers use whatever, but for bad things. We can do that, be creative and fun and exciting and accessible, but do that for good shit that actually helps people and is liberatory at the root of it. So all that being said, I'm curious, for our listeners are coloring some memes y'all like. Some memes you've created recently, Camila, that you've enjoyed. Or what the process is of memes you create. I know you repost stuff, but also create your own. So I'm kind of curious what that looks like.
[00:29:35.190] - Camila
Before that, I just want to say that we're working against the biggest propaganda machine ever in history. The US, they are constantly putting against the struggle, propaganda against people of the greater majority and propaganda against communism. Famously. So I want to say that even if people look down on memes and they don't like them, and they don't think it's effective like, dude, they have all the money in the world to make propaganda, and we got memes. And we got to make the best of what we can with what we got. After all, posting is, "for free"; you do spend your time and stuff on it, but it's pretty much for free. And with technology that you have available at your fingertips, so better than not doing anything. I think fighting the war of propaganda with memes is somewhat effective. If it's not, then why are so many people waking- especially younger generations- waking up to this struggle and waking up. Like you said, you see a meme and you might not get it, but you google it. And you know what? Wow. You find out something that you wouldn't have known if you wouldn't have seen that meme, you know? So I think that's really important to note as well.
[00:31:14.600] - Camila
But for me, I post content from different pages. Typically, I either go on Twitter or "X" [air quotes sound effect] whatever and on Reddit.
[00:31:28.688] - Caullen
Air quotes.
[00:31:29.030] - Camila
Yeah. And I do my thing there. And I've gotten some good people that I follow on there. I think that's the key; when you're following good people on different platforms then you know you kind of are getting good information. And that information is going to spread and it's going to be well received within our audience.
[00:32:00.320] - Caullen
What you said, at the start, as far as propaganda machine.. I posted a while ago- or on November 26, I'm looking at right now. 2023. A picture of the two towers in New York, 2001. It says, "the most sophisticated propaganda machine ever conceived by humans trying to normalize a literal genocide." And then it's like the second plane: "random comrades with meme pages."
[00:32:22.630] - Camila
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thank you. And that's exactly it. I don't think some people realize how big propaganda plays in our mind. And how, basically, if you're forming story, then reality will shape around it. I tend to collect from different pages and apps and news, and I try to do my research and do due diligence. And that's why I don't post a lot and I'm tagged more. Because for my posts, I also like to create my own content. I think that's important to me because it lets me be creative and express myself. And then it's more gratifying for me to create my own content and for people to like my own content than to just repost something. And that getting likes or whatever. So... But I get inspired from different things or just different stuff that I experience in my daily life.
[00:33:38.170] - David
Yeah, that's so awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I think, Caullen, to kind of dive deeper into your question.. I mean, again, so we've talked about memes and all the ways that they make things accessible, right? But I think what I've always appreciated, and this is even when- we just used Facebook to learn stuff. But it's like the way things become accessible. Meaning like, one of my favorite type of memes is when they use SpongeBob. And so it's like... I don't know if you've seen, but it's like, it's Patrick and SpongeBob staring at- or Patrick and SpongeBob running and Squidward looking at them out the window. And it's like, so if you've seen SpongeBob, you kind of- there's some type of a relatability there, but it's political things. Which is like, President Obama- no, President Biden staring at whatever, and it's like SpongeBob and Patrick represent someone else. Or... So I'm a huge fan of anything using SpongeBob memes. And so I think one of my all time favorite is when Squidward and SpongeBob go on strike.
[00:34:53.701]
[sound clip from SpongeBob SquarePants] Attention people of Bikini Bottom. You have been cheated and lied to. The gentle laborer shall no longer suffer from the noxious greed of Mr. Krabs. We will destroy dismantled oppression board by board. We'll saw the foundation of big business in half. Even if it takes and eternity. With your support, we will send the hammer of the people's will crashing through the windows of Mr. Krab's house of servitude.
[00:35:14.640] - David
The amount of interpretations that people have taken that small clip into. And that's also something that I think I really appreciate about it. Because there could be multiple memes about the same thing, even using the same thing, but they can still be so unique. And they can be so targeted. I think one of the pages that I really appreciate is the CTUlocal on Instagram because like-
[00:35:36.160] - Caullen
Chicago Teachers Union.
[00:35:36.920] - David
Chicago Teachers Union, they'll oftentimes use memes. And/or meme-ess things. I think when it was Brandon and Vallas, it was like, Vallas is like a plain hot dog and Brandon is a more exquisite sort of thing. So from using templates and stuff to bringing in with like- I've seen a lot also Dragon Ball Z memes and stuff. Specifically with a lot of the creators passing away in the anime world. So I'm a huge fan of those type of plays.
[00:36:06.310] - David
And then kind of diving more into... Because I think something I really appreciate that you said is like, research, right? Because I think the layperson would be like, oh, all she's doing is putting memes together and looking at stuff. But I think it's important for folks to understand and realize that- while it is "free", like as you mentioned, the time and effort that you and other folks put into the research, the understandings, making sure the story looks good. I think one of the people that I'm thinking of specifically is- I don't know what their handle is necessarily, but James Rehwald, it's this white kid with curly hair. But the way he breaks long periods of history down. And I'm thinking about one specific one where he's breaking up the Israeli Palestinian conflict and dates it from 1930 to present and it's in 60 seconds. And he used nerf guns and other things to mean other things.
[00:37:02.940] - David
And one of the things that I really appreciate looking at that type of a profile is the creativity that all of you creators do in order to not get censored. I think we- Caullen mentioned you have a backup account. It's like so many people have gotten smarter and smarter in order to, 1) overcome or outsmart the propaganda machines, which is the Metas and the etc. etc. The censorships and stuff. And even then, people also look for those things. It's interesting that- it's like, okay, cool, well, it's alright there, their page is banned right now. We know where else to see some of Camila's stuff, or we know where else to see other things. So I don't know. The resourcefulness of it all are some of the things that I'm thinking about as we're talking about it a little more. And I'm like, I wish I had time to make memes for reals, for reals.
[00:37:48.020] - Caullen
I'm just scrolling through- I'm scrolling through Camila's accounts well as my own.
[00:37:53.210] - David
Go ahead.
[00:37:53.690] - Camila
Is that him? Is that him?
[00:37:55.640] - David
Yes, that is exactly.
[00:37:57.220] - Camila
Yeah! I love him! His shit is so good. I... Yeah. He's next level. I'm not there yet, but I love his content. And I was so surprised because he added me as a collaborator a couple times and I was like, me? What? That's crazy.
[00:38:15.320] - David
Yoooo, that's right, that's right.
[00:38:17.270] - Camila
I'll take it. Yeah!
[00:38:18.000] - Caullen
What is that equivalent to in your world? Do all you motherfuckers know each other? All the leftist meme creators, are y'all homies? Or is it like, oh, he's in the big leagues. And they collaborate with you and it's like, oh I gotta like... What does that feel like? I'm trying to think of how to parallel that for folks who aren't in this world to their lives. What does that feel like?
[00:38:36.180] - Camila
I was a little bit star struck when that happened. I was like-
[00:38:41.130] - Caullen
You were like, that's James.
[00:38:42.450] - Camila
Yeah. Cause- okay, listen- I've been in this world for a while now, and I would look at his videos and I'd be like, oh my God, wow, that's amazing. The creativity behind it, and how you're able to build from all of this into this little tiny bit and be so accurate and informative. And it's just, yeah. Some accounts, it's like, wow, I can't believe they added me. But they didn't even ask me, they're just like, oh, click. Like, oh, how would anybody say no? But yeah, it's... A lot of us don't even talk sometimes. We just kind of, we vibe in the content, and if they accept, they accept. And if they don't, it's fine, no hurt feelings and we move on. But sometimes there's people that I've been working with in the past that we do put our heads together and come up with more serious posts and more of a backbone. And we go over... Like, my friend Peach.
[00:39:48.560] - Caullen
Shout out!
[00:39:50.820] - Camila
Yeah. So, with them, it's been over a year since we've been posting stuff together. And we bounce off ideas off each other every time we want to post something. So it's not, you know... Sometimes maybe he'll post more, but we'll be bouncing off ideas. Because I- sometimes I just don't have the time to, because I have to tend to my children. But so that's- it works a lot- with them it works like that, with other people it might be just randomly. Or they might ask me. And I think a lot of people vibe with the same content, and that's why they collaborate together. And it helps them, and it helps us, smaller creators who- get our name out there. So I think it's nice, and I appreciate when people add me to stuff. Like, yay, that's cool!
[00:40:46.560] - David
Caullen, what I was gonna say is, it's like, my man is clearly on the CIA list. His shit's being like... They got Chad and Timmy and Tommy over here having to look through all his shit all the time. So it's like, I got a friend who is on the CIA's most wanted, that's kind of dope. I don't know if James is or is not. I can see him being- you know, all his shit being just overlooked. Not overlooked, but him being surveillance or whatever. But just curious. That is cool, though. That is cool. But, Caullen, anything else that you're thinking about? You know, we mentioned James. Is there anything- you mentioned buddyhead, which I think is-
[00:41:23.050] - Caullen
Yeah, I'm curious some other accounts you guys like a lot? Or specifically any meme templates you guys like or anything like that? I will say, the creativity, I think, is so important. Because I feel like- it almost feels like- folks who do comedy, like sketch comedy, and skits and stuff like that. Or taking ideas and flipping on their head. That's kind of what a meme is in a certain way. Even as you were talking about liking James's posts and looking up to him in a certain way, then he collaborates with you like, oh man, this is so cool, and I'm starstruck. It's like, it's a junior high basketball game, you're on the bench. You been riding the bench all season, and then the coach is like, hey, kid, you're in. It's like your opportunity type of thing. Dramatic and not related, but also kind of related at the same time.
[00:42:11.030] - Caullen
So it's just like, I think how creative's minds work, in a broader sense. Especially with comedy and also with politics. It's like, how do we make this accessible and also just fun? And what am I already naturally kind of thinking about? So I don't know. My mind kind of went there as far as creativity in general. And then it's using it- I don't wanna say for the greater good because that sounds weird and centrist. But just using it in a way that feels good to you and you like, and it's fun; and also points towards liberation and doing that consistently.
[00:42:43.300] - Camila
Yeah. So I think with anything that you're gonna be creative with, you have to kind of try it out a few times. It takes me a long time to put even one meme together. So there is... I think, I don't know. The one that has done the best, it was... of mine, has been the, "Yeah, I'm left wing...." I don't know if you can see, but.. Ahh, sorry. But basically it's just like, yeah... When they tell you, yeah, I'm left wing. And what you hope they mean, and it's all these communist leaders, the Black Panthers, and Salvador Allende, Karl Marx. And then what they actually mean, and it's like, CNN, Democrats.
[00:43:44.770] - Caullen
Obama.
[00:43:45.280] - Camila
Barack Obama. And that one did really well. And it took me a while because I wanted it to look nice, but I never expected it to do as well as it did. But it just, I think I might have seen something similar, and I was like, oh, I can do this better.
[00:44:04.060] - Caullen
Yes! That's how it happens.
[00:44:06.080] - Camila
Yeah, sometimes, that'll be it. Or sometimes I see a headline and it will trigger an image in my head. Like a meme image. Like, the one that's the guy rubbing his hands.
[00:44:22.760] - Caullen
Yes. Behind a tree.
[00:44:24.200] - Camila
You know? Yeah. With the yellow jacket. And every time I see like, oh, a mineral or oil was found here, you know that's the perfect meme for the US; getting ready to bring democracy to the- *laughing*. Or I was eating Indian food and I was like, oh man, this is so oily. It was like, mad oil. The curry on top of it.
[00:44:51.195] - Caullen
Yeah!
[00:44:51.330] - Camila
So I was like, oh that's the perfect meme. Like, the US is gonna come to bring freedom and democracy to my curry because it has so much oil.
[00:45:01.150] - Caullen
That's amazing.
[00:45:03.300] - Camila
I think it just comes like- you're in this world so much- you're connected and you're online for so many years that things will instantly either come to you. Or sometimes you have to do your research, and you have to put things together. It also helps if you just look at blank memes and then look at news. Then you're like, oh, I could put these two together, this could work. But in terms of creators, I like James a lot. Blackleftist. Cait- I always forget her name, but she's really good. Hold on, I'm gonna look it up.
[00:45:46.600] - Caullen
We'll have all the accounts in the episode notes. And y'all motherfuckers better read them because they're gonna be great.
[00:45:51.760] - Camila
Yeah. Cait Johnstone.
[00:45:53.740] - Caullen
Oh yeah. She goes crazy. Yeah yeah.
[00:45:54.980] - Camila
From Australia. And you know what? I recommend almost to everyone that I speak to about politics is like- she does YouTube. And she does typically one episode a day and it's about ten minutes long. And it's like- it's really good. If you have ten minutes a day that you can spend listening to something, I would say listen to that because it's a must. They have really good geopolitical, and criticizing the imperial regime. So I would definitely recommend that. Other creators, Peach, of course. I don't remember their whole handle, and that's awful because-
[00:46:43.970] - Caullen
Episode notes, y'all. Episode notes.
[00:46:45.010] - Camila
Peachteacommunist. Of course, that's my good comrade that we've been working with for a long time. Cocktailsandcapitalism. Another podcast.
[00:46:58.770] - Caullen
Eyy.
[00:46:59.040] - Camila
805 Uncensored is the podcast that I co-host irregularly with. And antifascist.memes, the other one that's really good. Imperfectactivista, really like them. And, yeah, there's a lot. There's also people like my friend Jag who did really dope content and rapped and everything. And then he did some activism work against cops and LA. And this city didn't like that, so they ended up arresting him. Charging him with a bunch of bogus charges, and then he was actually fired from his teaching job.
[00:47:50.060] - Caullen
Noooo, bro.
[00:47:51.690] - Camila
Yeah. And the charges were dropped. But also, one of the conditions to his bail is that he doesn't use social media. So he's not allowed to make content anymore. So we got to understand that now judges are in charge of your social media uses. Because they know it's a tool. Because they know it's a good tool to gather the crowds or else they wouldn't care. You know?
[00:48:24.730] - Caullen
Absolutely. I mean, you're saying this, too, on a week that what's... I won't names, I don't know exactly- but several states passed, pretty much, anti-
[00:48:31.550] - David
Three states. Yeah.
[00:48:32.780] - Caullen
Three states? Three states passed anti-mass protest laws. And so.
[00:48:38.540] - David
Yeah. Which is wild. Just wild. Just scary.
[00:48:42.640] - Caullen
Yeah. I mean, we could go on about that alone.
[00:48:44.500] - David
It's another episode.
[00:48:45.930] - Caullen
Just the fact that First Amendment rights, all these other things that we say or codified on pieces of paper that aren't actualized by any means. And again, I'll go back to the point of, insurrectionists or January Sixers do things like that, and they're complaining about it not living up to what we talked about as far as due process, first amendment rights. I'm like, you know what? You're not wrong. You're not wrong. But you're gonna be fine. Y'all are gonna be fine. The system is built to come after us. So uplifting just the absurdity of that. I feel like we've gotten- at least I've gotten, you hearing stories like that. Like, yeah, that's what they do. And it's like, wait, no, this is absolutely insane. This guy put up some memes and some videos? He did other stuff, too, it's multimedia. But was arrested for it on bogus charges, lost his job. Folks saying like, hey, Palestinian children should be alive today- fired from their jobs. It's just... Yeah, it's.... It's absolutely insane. But I think that's where community comes in. That's where the backup pages come in. That comes with navigating these- I don't wanna say systems, but these businesses: a Meta, Twitter whatever, in a way that we can use this because it's a tool that's going to reach people. But also, they're out for us, so how do we navigate that? It sounds very tough.
[00:50:01.450] - Camila
It sounds tough. And I'm unemployed, so I don't have that on the back of my- on my back, that I kind of post freely because of that. But even though that's the case, I'm still, sometimes like, uhh, I might pass on a post on collaborating one. Because I don't know, maybe I'm like, oh, maybe I will lose my citizenship or something. I don't know. You always have these things in the back of your head. But as we were mentioning, another of my comrades lost- he got fired because- from his college teaching job because posting for Palestine. So posting has real life implications. So it's not just the online world. It has real consequences to a lot of people. And also it informs people and a lot, and that's why we're seeing the support that we're seeing for Palestine. Because all this information has been able to pass from me to you, to another person and to another person. People are starting to... I don't want to say wake up, but they are becoming more informed and they are becoming more vocal because they're seeing this. And if we weren't posting about multiple things that are happening, the news are not going to show you. The news are biased. The newspapers, they're all owned by the same people.
[00:51:49.830] - Caullen
Yeah. I think, to me, that's how I've always kind of positioned- part of this episode is in the age of spin, right? And we've used that moniker in several different other episodes about different things. And what we talk about is like, it's typically a topic like this that's "polarized". As far as strong opinions and, for us, facts. But facts and opinions, on all these sides about political issues, issues that matter, people care about. Or music and hip hop or comedy. And it seems that way that now it's polar- after this thing happened, it's polarized, right? And there's some- that's true to some degree.
[00:52:25.090] - Caullen
There's this idea of when after October 7th or after January 6th or after a Trump or COVID, there's like, the nation or America gets polarized. Or the world gets polarized. Everyone's in different camps and stuff. And that's true to an extent. But I think, one thing I like to situate and think about is like, no, it was always polarized. There were always differing opinions. But in this case the power is being shown and the resistance against the power is being explicit. People are like, this is most polarized time in the country. Around Trump. And it's like, y'all remember the Civil War? It was pretty polar then.
[00:53:03.640] - Caullen
And with the news cycle and propaganda and the "normal" or what's been normalized in the news and stuff, it's- they don't consider themselves biased. They consider themselves fair and balanced and centrist. Which, as we know, especially in this country, white supremacy is normal, patriarchy is normal, transphobia is normal. All these violent systems manifest themselves in suit and ties in ways they're supposed to be respectable and understood and appreciated and sought after. And that's what corporate legacy news is. Their baseline, their normal, their zero is white supremacist. It is imperialist.
[00:53:40.420] - Caullen
And so it's always funny to me when, I put my one or two memes a year out, or we'll just talk to folks in the world or talk about Soapbox about what I think is important as far as media and framing. And I, and we are seen as left, or like, radical. And it's like, we just want people to have a house and eat food every day. We're not the radical ones, y'all are actually radical ones. And so that reframing is always interesting in these conversations, too. Especially with these tools we have, like I mentioned, the Nazi memes versus our memes type of thing.
[00:54:07.300] - Caullen
But I'm glad you position the world that you're in, and the world we all consume, especially this day and age, as far as memes or TikToks. So shout to TikTok for putting so much information out there about Palestine, especially the past couple months, and other things, too. And it's nice when we... It's always interesting when corporate forces pay attention or move or shift because of either grassroots media or activism and/or even memes or the Internet itself, because it shows us that we're winning. Especially when we know, to your point, they have arguably billions, trillions of dollars to manifest a lot of this. We have- I think AIPAC and the Anti-Defamation League are on calls being scared about TikTok.
[00:54:55.610]
But I also want to point out that we have a major, major, major generational problem. All the polling I've seen: ADL's polling, ICC's polling, Independent polling suggests this is not a left right gap, folks. The issue in the United States's support for Israel is not left and right. It is young and old.
[00:55:21.300] - Caullen
It's just fascinating to see like, oh, that some Gen Zers with some TikTok skills talking- telling you facts with some opinion and some pizzazz on there are making these huge, corporate, powerful Zionists, and/or white supremacists, and/or capitalist forces scared because they're losing money or they're losing the PR war. And fortunately unfortunately, that has a great weight in how things happen and how pressure happens, how pressure on campaigns happen, how boycott happens. And how grassroots activism works in this day and age, for better or for worse. We have the Shaun Kings of the world and the folks who only do that and nothing else. And that's a whole different conversation. But, yeah, it's such a powerful, interesting site of study and also site of action because we're using it in ways that help not just our people but people in general. I think that's important.
[00:56:12.100] - Camila
But I feel like our time to have the little freedom of speech that we have in social media, it's kind of running thin because of all the limitations and, you know. We're already are seeing people being silenced on TikTok. The bill trying to- the bill wanted to... For the other buyers to buy TikTok in order to control it. Then we're also- I was also on Reddit the other day and- Reddit works with moderators. Meaning the people that run the subreddit- because there is different- Reddit is one page, but then there is little sections of Reddit, that's called a subreddit. And they are all its own little niche. There's even a subreddit that is called... You know... You were talking- I forgot his name now. But the claw machine. The-
[00:57:24.850] - Caullen
Oh, yeah, the grim reaper and the claw machine?
[00:57:27.100] - Camila
Yeah.
[00:57:28.212] - Caullen
With Henry Kissinger?
[00:57:29.130] - Camila
Yeah. It was like, when would Henry Kissinger die? That was the whole subreddit. About like, oh man, when is he gonna die? And then when it finally happened like, oh, is this the end of this subreddit? Everybody was asking.
[00:57:44.590] - Caullen
Get somebody else.
[00:57:45.600] - Camila
What is going to happen now? But, now I saw a tweet on a Zionist- or a Reddit post on a Zionist subreddit saying how they should get Zionists who have post history to apply to be moderators on leftist subreddits.
[00:58:11.894] - Caullen
Noooo.
[00:58:12.200] - Camila
So they can control the subs. So I think, you know... And I just saw this last week. So I think little by little, they're gonna start taking over even more. And we are already seeing a lot of the Palestinian accounts being shut down. Or being shadow banned.
[00:58:39.610] - Caullen
Can you tell folks who may not be familiar, what shadow banning is or looks like?
[00:58:43.790] - Camila
Yeah. Shadow ban basically means that- for example, on Instagram, Instagram won't show new people your page. They also might not show your post. They might also give a warning to people who are trying to follow you, against following you. So there's different levels of shadow banning. And that also depends on what laws you have "broken".
[00:59:19.906] - Caullen
Air quotes, y'all.
[00:59:20.860] - Camila
Yeah. So.. But they're shadow banning, pretty hard, on pro-Palestinian accounts. And anything political, they even changed the settings on Instagram that now you have to go onto your settings and allow for political content to be shown to you. And it wasn't the case just a few months ago. You didn't have to go through that trouble. Now, they're purposely hiding political content from you. And you have to manually go into your settings and change that on your Instagram account. Because if you don't, they won't even show it to you even if you do follow those pages. So I feel like our time is kind of limited. But I'm sure we'll keep finding ways to get the information out there. But obviously, if they're going through all these troubles to try to hide us, and hide our message, and hide what we're trying to communicate, it means that it's, like you said, it means that it's working in the real life.
[01:00:45.330] - Caullen
Absolutely.
[01:00:46.770] - David
I was gonna say, any app builders out here, cause- don't, like... Doesn't Trump have his own online platform?
[01:00:54.422] - Caullen
Yeah, Truth Social.
[01:00:54.530] - David
That's the name of it?
[01:00:55.670] - Caullen
Truth Social, yeah.
[01:00:57.250] - David
Where it's like, you can do a membership and shit? There's also- isn't there a dating for like.. If you're a Trumper?
[01:01:02.320] - Caullen
And it's not-
[01:01:02.910] - David
Ahh. The right stuff. I don't- yeah. That's...
[01:01:06.910] - Caullen
Why isn't there a tagline: make dating great again? It's not their tagline. And I know there's other issues we should be talking about, but it's like, come on, y'all, it's a slam dunk.
[01:01:16.160] - David
Literally right there. No, but I mean, Camila, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I totally forgot about the whole TikTok divestor ban. Which is- and that's because we don't use it, I guess, which is probably why.
[01:01:28.710] - Caullen
And with the age of spin thing too, they've always done that. But when we're in a heightened moment, there's something that's big and people are giving attention to, and we're winning, it's more violent. I use that intentionally as far as in all the ways. So it's like, to your point, it's a sign of, okay, we're doing shit that's working. But also, fuck, they're coming for us. And they're coming with all their power, energy, and legislation, and legalese, and all the bullshit. Oh, let's cancel TikTok because Chinese guys spying on us. Oh, NOW you're worried about people spying on us? You work for the government, motherfucker. Like, what? Yeah, so it's just clear as day to us, but I think getting that across to other folks, it's sometimes difficult.
[01:02:04.770] - David
Yeah. And I mean, I was gonna- this is definitely more of an open-ended question. But I remember, 2016, 2020 is like, oh, people are putting fake news articles on Facebook. That then Facebook then had to- there's, now some type of a program that catches stuff, whether it's fake or not. And it will tell you- fact checkers and shit. Just like, the system- I'm naming these because the system is constantly doing things to adapt and try to catch itself before it has those pitfalls. But, I just- listening to you, Camille, and knowing a lot of our comrades who are in the same mindset. It's like, we use all the tools at our advantage til we got them. And then, if not, then we have to adapt and evolve and find something different. So that's why I started being like, if anyone develops apps and shit, let us know what we getting on next? Without it becoming an issue of, we're just screaming into the same void. Which is why I'm naming the Trump group it's like there's no actual-
[01:03:03.683] - Caullen
The Trump group. *laughing*
[01:03:05.070] - David
There's no outside dialog. Or, I don't think there's as much as it would be just on a normal Twitter world where different levels of spectrum come into it.
[01:03:14.694] - Caullen
Oh, I see what you're saying.
[01:03:14.730] - David
So that's like- I'm not encouraging that all of our radical groups make our own app, and that's where we hang out in. That's not what I'm trying to get at. Yeah. Because, yeah, the last thing we need is us screaming at each other about the things we already know.
[01:03:28.410] - David
The last thing I want to bring here- because I know we've talked about creating, producing media, specifically, right now, politically aligned and/or just in that world of consciousness. I think the other end that I've really appreciated is in the human element of- there's oftentimes the memes where it's like, a real friendship is just me and my friends sending memes back and forth to one another. And I think the way in which the meme world has also allowed us to reaffirm relationships we have with folks. There's so many people who I have on social media who I don't have daily conversations with. But we be blasting and sending each other memes, right? Whether that's sports memes, political memes. My favorite is mixing them all in between. We got some Twilight shit, and then I show you Biden. And then it's like a dog meme, and then I show you something with Gaza. And then we'll dump a serious one, and then we go back to memes.
[01:04:34.940] - David
So I don't know. To me, it's something that I want to make sure that that was uplifted. It's like, the way in which we also use memes as a- I don't know, self-care may be too strong of a way of saying it. But there's a time now where I go on my IG and just like, alright, I'm just gonna unplug for five minutes and I'm gonna look at dog memes for five minutes to make myself happy. Because- and that's a thing that we can create, and a lot of us have in terms of the tactics and the reasons why we're using some of this stuff. Not all of it has to be fight, fight, fight. Some of it can just be like, yo, chill. Let's laugh. Let's share a moment, and then, alright, cool, we're good. We got that, now we can get back to it. So that's something that I wanted to make sure was named in terms of the meme world.
[01:05:17.400] - David
And just also when you have homies who do it, it's just so funny. And you could talk about how creative that was, or decisions you can make. And so there's so many levels that go into the creating, the way it lives, and the effects. Because I'm sure there's been- I mean, you named one, where you created something and it went in a route that you didn't expect. I think In this example we're talking, like, virality. Or virality for it going viral. *laughin* You didn't think. Other things could be like, oh, this post actually got hella haters on it, and trollers. I know we didn't have enough time to talk too much about trolls in the world. But, I mean, yeah. Just finding that balance, I think, is fantastic. And so, appreciate the work that you do as well. And all of our homies out here who doing it big.
[01:06:05.540] - Camila
Also flirting through memes, is a good one. That's a new-
[01:06:10.468] - Caullen
100%.
[01:06:10.810] - Camila
New style of relationship that I prefer.
[01:06:14.770] - David
Yeah. Tell me you love me by sending me the right memes.
[01:06:17.300] - Camila
Yeah, exactly. That's the sixth language of love or whatever.
[01:06:25.410] - David
The sixth language of love. I love that. We have to add it to the book. There's no five, there's six. I don't know why, but it makes me think of when we read your tagline at the beginning, I thought of, there's this person I know who uses Tinder. And they'll only match with motherfuckers and be like, alright, meet me at this thing. And it's like, they're volunteering. *laughing* At like a soup kitchen, or they show up to an action.
[01:06:49.513] - Caullen
A protest.
[01:06:49.630] - David
Yeah. It's like the same type of idea. So y'all using, as we should, we're resourceful with what we have. You know motherfuckers are gonna be thirsting, and so why not use that to our advantage?
[01:07:01.870] - Camila
Yeah.
[01:07:02.890] - David
Full circle.
[01:07:04.110] - Camila
We've got to use what we can while we can. Right?
[01:07:07.120] - David
Yeah.
[01:07:08.050] - Camila
So. And then from that, when we cannot use that anymore, we got to move on to something else. So absolutely I agree with that. And, no, I think memes have become a super important part of our modern life and modern relationships. And whether they are political or not, I think that they are a way to kind of get our minds off things. Whether or not political, they're just something that keep us entertained. Maybe reading the back of the newspaper when you were a kid, and they had this section with all the funny-
[01:07:50.100] - David
The comic strips?
[01:07:51.070] - Camila
Yeah, the comic strips. Or you could do the word puzzle and stuff like that. Maybe it's a little bit of that. Or like Reader's Digest, they had a section, too, that was a little bit more fun. And when you were bored without anything to do, you would go on that. And it would be a little dopamine boost.
[01:08:12.955] - David
Dopamine boost.
[01:08:13.810] - Camila
Yeah, just things keep evolving with technology. But I think it's cool. I think it's beautiful, and I like being involved with it. And even if it didn't do well, I feel like expressing myself through memes has helped me in a lot of positive ways, so I definitely enjoy it.
[01:08:37.770] - David
Yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah. Well, Camille, I mean, I really appreciate you chopping it up with us. I know you already gave a lot of a couple shoutouts, but I did want to give you an opportunity. Is there anyone you may have missed or anyone you definitely want to include in your rise in meme Lordship? If there are any of those who you stepped over to rise to the top?
[01:09:01.040] - Caullen
Daaaamn.
[01:09:01.590] - David
Naw naw, I'm just kidding.
[01:09:02.040] - Caullen
Who'd you step on to get up there?
[01:09:02.700] - Camila
No, no, there is no stepping over anyone here. But-
[01:09:06.220] - Caullen
Stepping with. Stepping with.
[01:09:07.630] - Camila
Oh, yes, exactly. Exactly. So definitely some of the good pages that I like is abnormalize.being is a great one because they provide so much informational content, but then, a lot of feel good content in between, too. So I really love that. Bless_upfit, also a lot of good content from a little bit different perspective. And ohnotechbro who said he was my meme husband, so I thought that was pretty funny. And is another very Internet-y person like me, and I enjoy his memes as well. But, yeah. I mean, there is a lot of people. Everybody that I'm following, probably.
[01:10:02.230] - David
Yeah.
[01:10:02.760] - Camila
No, there's some personal- that's my main account. That's my personal account so it's funny that my regular people, you know, that I interact for, for years in my family- they all look at me like, what are you doing?
[01:10:17.650] - Caullen
What is this?
[01:10:18.720] - Camila
Yeah. They're so confused sometimes. They- yeah. But-
[01:10:23.260] - Caullen
We're here to see your vacation, but now I'm just hearing about Gaza. I don't understand.
[01:10:27.600] - Camila
I'm so confused. Oh, yeah.. Well, you know, that's what you get. But yeah, that's my only and main account. And it evolved into something political. But I'm happy with it. I think it's good.
[01:10:40.910] - Caullen
Is there- I know we're trying to wrap, too. I am curious a little bit of how- do you try to balance that? Or you just kind of put out what you feel like putting out and that is what it is? Or is there- do you, now, find yourself in a way where you have to strategize what you put out when in a way that feels like- not genuine or not what you want to do because it's your account? Or is there any of that there? Or you just do what you do, and see where it falls?
[01:11:00.750] - Camila
You know, I try to balance it, but the hardest thing for me is to post selfies. I want to post all these things, and then I'm like, oh man, I need to really post a selfie to boost this shit. And then I'm like, ahhh, I either have to take a picture or I have to freaking look through some in my folder. And that has become the burdensome thing to do. But I try to keep a balance of that. And... Yeah, with the people that I know irl and that I've met forever, it's kind of like, oh, you get what you get. And if you don't like it, you get to hit the door. It's all good.
[01:11:49.120] - Caullen
And if you're true friends, you'll text me. Or we'll talk another way. Don't rely on it.
[01:11:53.590] - David
But who would have known thirst trapping is hard.
[01:11:56.580] - Caullen
You gotta get the right angle, man. You gotta make sure that your skin looks good. It's a whole thing.
[01:12:00.820] - Camila
Yeah, it is! And it's tiring. And it's like, oh man, I gotta do this again? Darn it.
[01:12:08.300] - David
Yo, yo, yo. Well, with that, keep up the great work. For all of our listeners, again, episode notes has all of the details so you can make sure to follow all the people you need to if you don't already. If there's anyone we miss, definitely let us know so we can make sure to highlight and or follow them as well. From Bourbon 'n BrownTown, stay Black, stay Brown, stay queer.
[01:12:31.940] - Caullen
Stay tuned. Stay turnt.
[01:12:33.420] - David
And we'll see you for the next one.
OUTRO
Music Harlem Shake by Baauer.