Bourbon 'n BrownTown

Ep. 91 - Narratives in Media & Documenting Movements 2.0 ft. Morgan Elise Johnson

Episode Summary

BrownTown reflects on the 2023 Chicago municipal elections and the importance of disrupting dominant media narratives with Morgan Elise Johnson, filmmaker, publisher, and co-creator of the TRiiBE, an award-winning digital publication and production company dedicated to reshaping the narrative of Black Chicago.

Episode Notes

BrownTown reflects on the 2023 Chicago municipal elections and the importance of disrupting dominant media narratives with Morgan Elise Johnson, filmmaker, publisher, and co-creator of the TRiiBE, an award-winning digital publication and production company dedicated to reshaping the narrative of Black Chicago.

Local, community, and especially radical and movement-based actors in radio, film, podcasts, and documentation have greatly disrupted the broader media landscape in the past decade for the better. BrownTown and Morgan discuss all the things from her presence on the WGN run-off election panel, the history and spectacle of political punditry, the real meaning of "tough on crime" rhetoric and what it obscures, to the harmful journalistic myth of objectivity and the violent status quo it upholds. How do we use these mediums, skills, experiences, and analyses to challenge the false/misinformed dominant narratives and uplift radical politics while continuing to access mass audiences in the ever-changing, fast-paced digital ecosystem? Here's their take. Originally recorded April 27, 2023.

Full Transcriptions Here!

GUEST

Morgan (she/her) is an independent filmmaker and publisher based in Chicago who is creating and preserving Black history. Most recently, she produced Unapologetic (2020). Morgan’s documentary career was born at Northwestern University and grew at Milwaukee-based production house, 371 Productions, where she produced and co-directed her first documentary, There Are Jews Here (PBS/WORLD CHANNEL, 2016). She also associate produced a Virtual Reality exploration of abortion clinic harassment called Across The Line (2016) which premiered at Sundance Film Festival’s New Frontiers exhibit. Her life and career evolved when she co-created The TRiiBE in 2018. Morgan has earned a spot on DOC NYC’s 40 under 40 list (2021), the Rolling Stones Cultural Council and Forbes’ 30 Under 30 Media Class of 2019. Follow Morgan on Instagram, and Twitter! and the TRiiBE on their site, Instagram, and Twitter!

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Mentioned and related:

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CREDITS: Intro soundbite from Mateo Zapata, guest on the first installment of Narratives in Media & Documenting Movements, Episode 70 and outro soundbite from Tahman Bradley of WGN on run-off election night, April 4, 2023. Audio engineered by Kiera Battles.

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Episode Transcription

Ep. 91 - Narratives in Media & Documenting Movements 2.0

BrownTown reflects on the 2023 Chicago municipal elections and the importance of disrupting dominant media narratives with Morgan Elise Johnson, filmmaker, publisher, and co-creator of the TRiiBE, an award-winning digital publication and production company dedicated to reshaping the narrative of Black Chicago.

INTRO

(Intro soundbite from Mateo Zapata, guest on the first installment of Narratives in Media & Documenting Movements, Episode 70)

[00:00:53] Mateo: In the community, in the individuals, in the people who are typically only subjects of the narrative of the documentation; I think that we have more power now than what we did 10 years ago. The emergence of social media, the emergence of being able to connect with people directly without a gatekeeper, right? You have to think, I mean, 15 years ago, something happened, if you didn't read about it in a paper or see it on the news, it didn't happen. That was it. You know, we live in a whole other era now where it's like, if you are consistent, if you are true to your work, to yourself, and you're given this opportunity.

BODY OF EPISODE

[00:01:52] David: Welcome everyone to another installment of Bourbon 'n BrownTown. It's your boy, David, coming to you live again from Chicago. Live on my time, not your time. Always with my boy, Caullen. How you doing, bro? 

[00:02:03] Caullen: I'm doing good. I'm loving this "live" bit that you've been- 

[00:02:06] David: I just like, it feels so in place. You know, I got the mic in front of me. I don't know, I don't know. But how you doing?

[00:02:11] Caullen: You're in a very comfortable setting though, right? 

[00:02:15] David: Partially, but we always get a little nervous when we get on the mic. It's like, we know we're gonna say some dumb shit, but it's like, can we stop that? 

[00:02:21] Caullen: I also think that Zoom has done that, for not only meetings, but also doing - recording so much via Zoom under COVID and lockdown and stuff. You know, we've done a lot of stuff in person, I'm still getting used to like, oh, I'm seeing people who I'm talking to. I like this. I can gesticulate, not in Nabeel's closet again. But it's still, it feels really weird, at least for me. How are you feeling? 

[00:02:42] David: I'm feeling alright. I'm feeling alright. It's beautiful outside. Fortunately for us, Caullen has no windows here, so we're not getting any of that love. But other than that... no, I mean, we're incredibly excited to be bringing another episode. I think, getting into the swing of things and getting used to the mic, I'm oftentimes allowed to be reflective, right? And it may also be because we've been doing these 2.0s, 3.0s, more that even put 

[00:03:06] Caullen: 4.0s, son! We out here!

[00:03:08] David: Even putting us in more reflective states, right? 

[00:03:10] Caullen: Watch out Marvel. We're going to have different phases of episodes. 

[00:03:14] David: For me, it's like seeing these 2.0s, 3.0s, it's clear that one conversation is never enough, right? And I think something we've been doing successful with these 2.0s, 3.0s is allowing time to dictate these changes. I think for our conversation for today in Narratives in Media & Documenting Movements 2. 0, the first one, shout out Mateo Zapata. I think it was such an interesting time. I think that one was on Zoom, right? So that was one of our Zoom calls. 

[00:03:43] Caullen: It was, yeah, 2021. 

[00:03:45] David: Yeah, so we were coming off of this 2020 year, right? And we were seeing the narrative change in ways that we were excited for, and then we- you see the backlash or the pullback, right? And I think with Mateo Zapata's episode it was his response to the Adam Toledo's murder by CPD- and specifically it was a response to a Tribune article. 

[00:04:09] Caullen: Yeah, it was a response to a response. Yeah, Eric Zorn wrote an article for the Tribune that was, in our view, collectively, really gross and kind of blamed Adam Toledo for being killed. And Mateo wrote an article in response, uplifting Brown youth a lot in that article; and it was nuanced and contextual and also like, fuck you Eric Zorn, but in a way that felt good and felt appropriate for that, I guess, column or manifestation, I guess. Sure. I couldn't write that shit. It'd be all caps and angry. And so we were really impressed with that. And also we've known Mateo in the scene and document movement stuff, so it was a really interesting conversation as far as like, where is media and journalism in this moment? Especially then, especially still definitely during COVID, after 2020, after the uprisings. The backlash against defund hadn't really hit full swing yet, but you could tell it was coming. So it was just an interesting moment, the spring of 2021 in Chicago and everywhere. And so we had him on and chopped it up. 

[00:05:11] David: Yeah. Yeah. And shout out to the boy, he's out there doing big things. So, if you haven't definitely check out that episode. And so, for our last episode, episode 90, we're able to have Jessie Fuentes and Byron Sigcho-Lopez with us. And I think in that conversation, we were able to ground the historical runoff that we had, but also, all these W's in city council. And so, I think that was such an exciting conversation, and there was so much that we kind of started nibbling that at the end, right?

[00:05:37] And taking the time and looking, again, at what the environment was giving us. And what the world was- how the world was talking about this run in Chicago. Cause it wasn't just Chicago talking about it. And so I think, we get the W and now we're starting to see some of these similar things that we've seen a couple years ago come back with Brandon. And so we're really excited to bring in this conversation. 

[00:06:05] Caullen: Big facts. And just to kind of table set a little bit more so when we are now: lame duck session of Chicago City Council, we have a new mayor, Brandon Johnson, we have give or take a few 17 socialists or progressive alderfolks coming in, and a really historic election in 2023 for multiple reasons, which we'll get into in a moment.

[00:06:30] But I think with our distinguished guest and with what we do with Soapbox and Bourbon 'n BrownTown: narrative changing, narrative sustaining, and leaning into truth, which shouldn't be something that's, you know, you have to work towards so much, but truth, nuance, context, and getting all voices at the table I think has been really important in our work. I think also the work of the TRiiBE and other local or community based organizations. And so it's really interesting looking at this moment we're in, which is unique and special for Chicago, having built on generations, decades, arguably. And it's really interesting. I think we're in an interesting moment as far as what happens in the future, not only politically or socially or economically, but with media, both legacy and community based journalism, both documentary, podcasts, art, everything. As we know, that's pretty much a part of how we get to liberation, how we get to revolution, how we change how people think about things. A lot of funder calls lately, so I've been like, you should give us money because this is amazing, we need to change how people think. But I believe that. And I think all of us in this room are part of that vanguard of change, which is going to last generations. I really believe that. 

[00:07:40] And so without further ado, I'd like to introduce our distinguished guest, Morgan Elise Johnson. For y'all that don't know, who live under a rock- Morgan is an independent filmmaker and publisher based in Chicago who's creating and preserving Black history. Most recently, she produced Unapologetic in 2020, a PBS/POV documentary that chronicles the Movement for Black Lives in Chicago through the intimate stories of two of its abolitionist leaders. Morgan's documentary career was born at Northwestern University and grew at Milwaukee-based production house 371 Productions, where she produced and co-directed her first documentary, There Are Jews Here. She also associate produced a Virtual Reality exploration of abortion clinic harassment called Across the Line, which premiered at Sundance Film Festival's New Frontiers exhibit in 2016. Her life and career evolved when she co-created The TRiiBE, an award winning digital publication and production company dedicated to reshaping the narrative of Black Chicago. Morgan has earned a spot on DOC NYC's 40 under 40 list in 2021, the Rolling Stones Cultural Council and Forbes' 30 under 30 Media Class of 2019. *airhorn sounds* Morgan, what is going on? 

[00:08:51] Morgan: Hey, thanks so much for having me. 

[00:08:54] Caullen: Thanks for being here. 

[00:08:55] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:08:55] Caullen: This is- I feel honored. The Morgan Elise Johnson is in our space. 

[00:09:00] Morgan: Yeah, it's... I feel like it's weirdly becoming a thing where I'm starting to get recognized in public and I'm like, do people get recognized in public for journalism? I'm kind of shocked. 

[00:09:12] David: I mean, when you make it around all these lists, like you got to. It's so exciting. 

[00:09:16] Morgan: It does definitely feel like there's been a... like the tide changed a little bit. All of us have been following movement work and that's one thing, but there was even this critique of millennials that we were marching in the streets and doing all this activism work, but that we were not engaged in electoral politics. So, what happened with this previous election was so interesting, where I feel like we were able to really capture the attention of young people, of millennials, and millennials have really been flexing their electoral strength, really. And placing people in office who represent the ideals that they've been championing on the picket lines and at the protests and all of those things. So it's been amazing to watch those worlds come together. Yeah, and exciting. 

[00:10:15] Caullen: And we're doing both. Like, I think, I mean, David, we talk about this all the time, voting and electoral system and stuff, and we very much situate and talk about like, where does electoral politics meet radical politics? And, what does radical even mean? Or what does movement liberation look like? And how's electoral politics being a tool in the toolbox? We can go on and on and on, but it's like, not only are we flexing our electoral politics muscles, political muscles rather, but also people we elected and get in office, we're like, hey, we know where you live. If you don't do what we say, we're gonna be at your door. It's not like we elected them like, okay, cool, but the job is done, right? It's like, it's always in tandem, always growing. And that we talked about a lot in the last episode. And so we're always building on movements of previous years, previous generations, but we're doing both in...at a... I don't know..

[00:11:02] David: At a different level. And something just to bounce off of what you said, Morgan, was, to me, it was very exciting, for example, to see you on election night in that type of a space. I think that's another way in which these worlds are colliding, right? And so, for folks who don't know, could you explain to a little bit, how you got to be on there that night? And some of your feels? Cause we saw it, we saw it all. And I'm sure there's been a lot of discourse about that evening, but just for some of our listeners who may not know.

[00:11:31] Morgan: You know, it's funny because, I don't watch TV news. And TV news is definitely, of all the journalism people, they're the group that I find to be like, my enemies. 

[00:11:50] David: You heard it here first.

[00:11:51] Morgan: I'm not one to be in support of much that goes on with TV news. So this opportunity was very much like, Ahh, I guess I'll go on here. You know? So what happened was a producer, a millennial producer, actually, at the station reached out to us, really requesting Tonia Hill to go on and be a representative voice for progressives and our style of journalism, alternative voices. And she really had to fight for that, I eventually learned. But Tonia is our only reporter, that's one thing that people don't know. Some people think that the TRiiBE is this huge operation. Like, we have a team of eight people. Tonia is our one reporter. Jim Daley and Tiffany also are reporters, so they tend to write as well, but they're editors. So we were sending Tonia to Brandon Johnson's event. And Tonia couldn't go on TV. And Tiffany originally turned it down. And I was on a bachelorette trip for my best friend. 

[00:12:56] Caullen: Priorities. 

[00:12:58] Morgan: I was on a bachelorette trip. And I'm learning that we got this opportunity to go on TV. And we turned it down. And I'm like, what? You don't turn down TV on election night, like, figure it out. And they were just like, well, do you want to go on there? Because we'll be working. And I'm like, Oh my God. 

[00:13:14] Caullen: I love how they called you like, uhm, where you at, girl? 

[00:13:17] Morgan: And like, well, you want us to be on TV? Then you do it. And so I was just like, all right. We work out of a coworking space and our office was closed on election night, so my team actually was gathering and working from my apartment. So I had a crew of people in my apartment as I was working and then getting dressed to go to WGN. I came in, I was late... and- well, they told me that I was going on at around 8. I think I went on at around 8:30. And I hadn't really been watching what was happening. So, right as I got to the studio and was getting ready to walk on, Brandon Johnson and Paul Vallas were tied. And I was just like, Okay, I feel good about this. And so I was in a room with all of these people, they gave me no itinerary of what we would be talking about. I think they sent the names of who would be on camera, but I didn't know who they were because I don't watch TV news. Little did I know that I would be going toe to toe with the former head of the of the Illinois GOP. Which was Pat Brady. 

[00:14:32] Caullen: I've watched this man since the 28th. 

[00:14:34] Morgan: Yeah. So we were just going toe to toe. And Twitter started lighting up and they were just, people were saying, I've been waiting for this moment my entire life, finally, somebody standing up to Pat Brady. And I'm just like, 

[00:14:48] Caullen: who is this white man? 

[00:14:51] Morgan: Basically. But so many people have contacted me and said like, that was such an inspiring moment to see their ideals represented on television in an otherwise mundane, formulaic show. So a lot of people said that they tuned in to WGN to watch me unpack what the election meant for us, in ways that they've never seen it before. So I learned of the impact of it afterwards and... it's been, it's really kind of feels like the TRiiBE has entered into a new era because of it. Because of it. And really Crain's just wrote an article, Corli Jay, just wrote an article and they were talking about how Brandon Johnson's media strategy embraced alternative news sources, embraced youth media, hip hop media, like Illinois's radio and things like that. And how that really helped to shape his messaging and his outreach strategy; and how that moment with us and WGN was really a reflection of that. That Chicago, in terms of the power of our voices changes when publications like ours get amplified, and that that helps to set the tone for the type of issues that will be raised during his tenure. Because of course we'll be uplifting those abolitionist ideals and uplifting nourishing institutions, and conversations beyond money and development what the business community wants, which so many other publications put at the forefront. And of course crime, can't forget about Chicago crime.

[00:16:45] So we actively and strategically challenge those narratives and who they serve. And I'm excited that Brandon Johnson has been accessible to us and that we've been in the- and we will be holding him accountable just like we do everyone else. So, but yeah, I'm excited for the opportunity, and that this raised our platform and people know that the TRiiBE is here.

[00:17:09] David: It's literally how I felt. And to me, it's like, once again, someone who doesn't watch- it's like someone mentioned to me, it's like, oh, the TRiiBE's on something. And I don't know why I thought it was WTTW, but WGN. And I was like, nah, so then I look at it and the only way I got it was through Twitter. And so... and just seeing that. And the whole toe to toe thing, I think is interesting because it's also like, the way it's built, it's not actually built for y'all to have any thorough, in depth, in deep meaningful conversations, right? It's more like, here's my response, this is how I feel about it, and your attentions feel that way. And so, I don't know. I still do think it was incredibly exciting, and really glad to hear that the TRiiBE has taken that opportunity to continue to push forward because that's what we wanna see. 

[00:17:54] Morgan: And to be honest, it didn't really feel that tense for me. 

[00:17:58] Caullen: Y'all were just talking. 

[00:17:59] Morgan: Yeah, like Tahman was on the other end. He's kind of an instigator. 

[00:18:02] Caullen: Is Tahman the Black dude? 

[00:18:03] Morgan: Yeah, the bald Black dude. He was instigating the situation, and then kind of sitting back and being like, I'm loving this. 

[00:18:09] Caullen: Yeah. He was like, You ever say about your mama? You ever say about your mama?

[00:18:13] Morgan: I can just tell that the entire room was really shocked by what was happening, and I just wasn't. 

[00:18:19] Lourdes Duarte: (tv static) How much do we know about his sort of style, his negotiating style, just coming off of being a Cook County Commissioner? I mean, what will he... Pat, you're laughing. 

[00:18:29] Pat Brady: So... No, listen, I agree with everything that was said here, but there is no record. And the fear that a lot of the business community has, and I represent them and I've talked to a lot of them, is that a lot of them are probably going to be pulling out. Because we can't afford any more taxes. We have the highest sales tax in the country. We're the most overtaxed people in the country. And we need more taxpayers, not more taxes. And I think, with all due respect, that's what we're going to get with Brandon Johnson. That's just the wrong recipe. On top of the fact that I don't think he's going to focus on public safety like we need to focus on. And the defund police mantra is just not the way to do it.

[00:19:00] Paul Lisnek: By the way, the proof of that was business community went behind Paul Vallas. 

[00:19:03] Pat Brady: Well, the business community is going to go right out, back over, across the state lines. They've been overtaxed and this defund police notion, or not supporting the police so we're going to hire two hundred more detectives. [...] it's nonsense. It's not going to work. 

[00:19:19] Lourdes Duarte: Morgan is ready to battle you. 

[00:19:22] Morgan: So this idea of will Brandon Johnson be controlled by the CTU? I mean, we've had no problem with wealthy people controlling the fifth floor, with corporations controlling the fifth floor, and so much of the city's wealth being hoarded downtown and on the north side while the south and west sides have been historically divested in. So the idea of teachers or labor unions having some political power on the fifth floor, that by far represents much more of Chicago than what we've gotten so far. 

[00:19:55] Pat Brady: But the reality is even Franklin Roosevelt had questions about the viability or the integrity, or should we have public sector unions? Because you don't get two sides, you get one side. And the CTU is super powerful right now. And their interest may not be the interest of the rest of the city, that's what a lot of people are worried about. 

[00:20:14] Morgan: What interests would those be? 

[00:20:16] Pat Brady: Well, I think the taxation interest, the holding the kids out of school, the way the CTU has operated in the last couple of years, those aren't good trades. Great for the CTU. 

[00:20:26] Morgan: Yes, CTU advocates for mental health and wrap around services for our kids, especially Black and Brown youth who need much more than a high quality education, which every kid should have. But these kids are are not doing well because they need much more than what they're being provided because of historic divestment in Black and Brown communities. So that's what they're advocating for. For health care for all, for housing, for things like that, that... 

[00:20:55] Pat Brady: everything. And listen, I agree with that. But everything comes with a price tag. And at a certain point you're gonna start pushing business out if you employ all these taxes. If you want to do an income- it just doesn't work. So there's got to be a-. (tv static)

[00:21:08] Morgan: You know, I've seen what the Chicago organizing community is, and what they do, and how powerful they are, and that we are so- the air was kind of being sucked out of the room as Brandon was pulling into the lead and I was kind of just bouncing in my chair. You know what I mean? Because it's what I expected. But with TV news anchors and things like that, they're usually not out in the community reporting. Their producers go report and bring things and then they read off of a teleprompter. So it wasn't like that same connection that I feel to, and to Chicago's organizing community, and the way that they hold me accountable as well, you know.

[00:21:49] I tell people all the time, based on, you know, we get a lot of critique and a lot of people are just like, oh you guys were one sided, you were this, you were that- and I'm just like, go read our mission. We say right out the bat that we're here for Black people. We're here for Black liberation. That's the lens that we do journalism. And we want all of the news to be as transparent as we are. I wish some of the... I wish everybody would just be like, Hey, we're here for corporations and all of our news is going to be through that lens. You know. That's what we advocate for. And that's why it was easy for me to go on TV and just do that work, because these are the conversations that we just have every day.

[00:22:29] (tv static) Well, first, since my friend here brought up crime, I just want to say that Forbes published an article in January of this year of the most violent cities. Chicago is not even in the top 15. We're not the violence capital of America, we are the violence narrative capital of America. And somehow Black Chicago has become the face of violent crime. And for those of us who are dedicated to reshaping the narrative, we're saying enough with that narrative. We are a community of vibrant people who are very interested in keeping our people safe. I think the vast majority of Chicagoans are open to those strategies and learning more about them. And I hope they listen to the young people who are forging that path. We saw a first step with that, with the election of Brandon Johnson. (tv static)

[00:23:23] And we're constantly going up against the media establishment so it felt normal for me. Instead of screaming on Twitter, I'm just telling them to their faces. Just like, yeah, you're wrong about this. Like, Brandon's gonna win.

[00:23:36] Caullen: You are factually incorrect. 

[00:23:37] Morgan: Yes. 

[00:23:39] Caullen: I like what you said about your mission being very transparent, right? But I think when I see, when I read y'all's work... yeah, I feel that love for Black people in it. But also I'm like, these are just facts and you're stating history and your analysis is taking consideration. Yeah, just like, what has happened in human history, but also it's taking perspectives and opinions and context. And so I don't even, I don't read it as like, skewed a certain way; it's just like, truth in that moment and what you're talking about. And it's like, you're a new publication; you talk about everything that's relevant to everybody, but centering Black folks, centering Black liberation actually liberates everybody...*whispers* if y'all didn't know. 

[00:24:22] Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. It's just- we've been very careful to just push back against the idea of objectivity and to actually embrace bias. Because what we're saying is that, everybody brings their lived experience to their work. There's no way to really turn that off. And we learn about this in film. You guys do documentary. And as an auteur, when you point your camera in a certain direction and you zoom in, you actually are fading out or blurring out everything that's not in focus. So we're saying that our focus is on Black Chicago and reshaping this narrative, which gives us an innate bias there. We're naming that bias. 

[00:25:06] That's not to say that it's not straight facts or that we're not ethical or any of that, like we are trained journalists, ethical, very thorough, and we've learned through analysis and through focus groups, as we study our audience, that they actually may go to television news to just get those immediate facts of the day. But then they come to the TRiiBE to get in depth analysis of what's going on in this city. So we've kind of taken on that role of unpacking, okay, like, this thing happened in Chicago, what does it mean? 

[00:25:44] Caullen: I love that. Objectivity is bullshit. David and I said that at our first workshop we did with young people. We were like, just so y'all know... you gotta walk them back from there as far as explaining why and how. And I think- I love what you were saying about like, a Craines or a Tribune or a, insert really any media outlet, it's like, just say who you're really here for, and let's go from there. We can't have an honest conversation without being honest about where you're coming from. Who's bankrolling you and what have you. We can't have all the stats and information about who owns all these companies and stuff. And so naming that and leaning into that will show those values. And I think the harm is done- the harm starts when you don't recognize that, and you are saying "no, we're objective, we're neutral". And it's like, okay, you're not, and no one is. And once you accept that and learn how your lived experience, or who benefits you, who feeds you, leans into that, then we can actually look at a more critical lens. You can make better work. But when you're just saying that, it's like saying, I'm a cishet man, I have no privilege, like, that's what it sounds like.

[00:26:42] And you can't be honest in shaping how people think about issues, how people understand information and facts, that's a lot of power to have. And I love how you mentioned like, obviously you're holding Brandon and whoever else accountable, who's in an elected position, but also like, you have power in what you've created, right? And you gotta understand that and know that, no matter how small it is; and understand as you grow a thing that you create or co-create, it's like, you still think about that first day you started doing it, and you're like, oh man, we like, I'm getting paid, and doing this and doing that... I'm on these awesome podcasts and things. People want to talk to me. But I'm still me, I'm still doing my thing, but I also understand that I hold power in how I'm wielding these narratives and letting people know what's happening in their world. That's important. 

[00:27:26] David: We have to challenge these dominant narratives in ways- in different ways, right? Because people have been fighting and talking against- the example, something you mentioned on that panel was like, the fact that Chicago is actually not one of the most violent cities in the world. However, in your words, you're like, Black America.... or, America sees Black Chicago as the face of that one, that's not the truth. That's also why I feel like the TRiiBE, in my opinion, why there is more trust in that type of an institution. Because of all of the things that you've named. And what we've seen from the outside. 

[00:28:07] Morgan: Yeah, I was- I've been arguing that Chicago is the violence narrative capital of America, which is why, although we're not in the top 15 most violent cities per capita, somehow we're still the face of it. And you know, which means that Black people are the face of it because all you see is Black people's mugshots and things like that. And how tragic that is that that's our "brand" and we have to think about who that serves. I think that narrative really helps to promote policies that displace Black people because it says these people are dangerous, they shouldn't be here. So when our schools are closed and our kids don't have anywhere to go, and then parents have to move to neighborhoods where there are schools, or they have to leave the city; and then there's development happening all over Chicago: like, you can't park in Hyde Park, the West Loop has a new tower erecting every other month or something it feels like.

[00:29:08] But yet there's this narrative that Chicago is this wasteland because of all of the crime. I just push back between all of that, because who's really getting pushed out of this city? The people who are being displaced, Black people. The Obama Library pushing people out of Woodlawn. It's always about displacing Black and Brown people, and that's what I feel like is underneath all of those dog whistle conversations that are pushed in the media. 

[00:29:37] Caullen: Obama Presidential Library, which they paid, what, $10 for 99 years for 16 acres of land? .....

[00:29:47] David: You can Google it. 

[00:29:49] Caullen: I gotta pay rent on Monday... like... I just think about the normalization of all the -isms we know to be true: patriarchy, racism, white supremacy, so on, so on, so on and so forth. And how that is normed, that is a status quo. Like, Chicago has that narrative because anti-Blackness is so pervasive. They can use these tools and these apparatuses that have been around for a long time to standardize and normalize all these harmful narratives that people believe and then put in policy and actually further that harm. And so why can't we do the same thing with, on the other end, for liberation, for peace, for life-affirming institutions, what have you, either in policy work, or narrative work, media, etc. And the way I see- David knows I watch a lot of corporate news... I get my news sources from a lot of different places so I can see how different outlets, different people 

[00:30:46] David: That's why he's angry all the time.

[00:30:47] Caullen: Put things in the world. But the panel, I mean the panel, the punditry panel itself is a product of capitalism. Late 90s, 24 hour news cycle is becoming more popular, they didn't want to pay folks to be out in the street and talk to people or do real journalism, because that costs a lot of money. And so, they would just get a "expert", put them on TV, and then have another "expert", put them on TV...they would be at odds. They'd have them fuss for an hour. And that started in the late 90s, and we haven't seen that change that much. 

[00:31:13] Morgan: Yeah. And it's also entertainment driven. 

[00:31:15] Caullen: Oh, 100%. 

[00:31:16] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:31:17] Caullen: 100%. 

[00:31:17] Morgan: There's all these comparisons that analysts make who compare TV news to, really, ESPN. Like when there's political debates, they get those...they get the portraits. It was like, Trump versus Biden! And then they changed the lighting to make them look like WWE wrestlers or something. And they put that poster together, and that's the promo for a presidential debate or something. It's really absurd. And you can compare all the marketing for those types of shows to ESPN, Stephen A. Smith, and stuff like that. And then the content becomes the clashing and the arguing, rather than just the truth and reporting facts to people. Because they just assume people don't want facts, they want entertainment, they want to see people argue. They want-

[00:32:10] David: someone to lose their shit.

[00:32:11] Morgan: Yeah. They want these one liners that they can take and then put on social media and drive engagement. So yeah, it really... again, TV news, my enemy. 

[00:32:22] Caullen: And it's wild because you were actually on the panel, obviously, and I watch it and stuff. And there has been changes over the years, and you see these weird things, but it's such a staple. And it's like, we're not, I'm not, we're not anti-conversation. We're having a conversation right now. You're not Alderman Raymond Lopez who like, it would just be... it wouldn't be beneficial to have a conversation, we'd just be arguing the whole time. And so it's interesting that where it's like, We know this comes from capital and trying to gain profit namely on the backs of folks who are already marginalized, but how do we disrupt it like you did on election night? And/or use the small nodes and small pros of it and make it into something more robust, actually have a deep conversation? And using facts and data and then going from there.

[00:33:05] And I think my frustrations- especially, I mean- with any kind of larger news story, especially in elections, the way the "neutral objective person" is presenting, it's never that way. Especially if it's any kind of ideology that's left of center, or uplifting Black lives, or saying anything against the police that's not... now it's a little different, but it's still reformist. Whereas where I come from in all this, especially in movement work, it's like, these are just the facts and the facts point to doing the right thing in these ways. And the tactics that are often critiqued are the tactics that are really well funded by our tax dollars, and they go to money for Ukraine and so on.

[00:33:49] David: So we've kind of named the work that's been happening within movement, and how that's kind of advanced since talking to Mateo. But I think to name now Brandon Johnson wins, and even that night you started hearing... I don't know, not negativities, just like, haters? I don't know. Like.. 

[00:34:10] Morgan: Bad actors. Bad political actors just being like, Okay, this is the end of Chicago as we know it. Like, Chicago's going to hell, basically. 

[00:34:18] David: The whole... I think the first thing I saw was the interim police chief, he's like, Oh, I'm out as soon as Brandon Johnson's in. And people are like, Oh, it's like, whatever. Like, that's the first thing I saw regarding like, oh, we'll see this decision with Brandon Johnson is now affecting this way, the police chief interim is leaving. 

[00:34:38] Caullen: He's a grown man, that's his choice. 

[00:34:39] David: So, first of all, the job wasn't his anyway. He was going to be there for a minute. Like that's why he's there in the in the first place. But just curious to hear from you, Morgan, what the TRiiBE's been seeing. Like, what are other things like that, that y'all have been seeing in terms of some of these outlets that wanna present no bias, kind of demonstrating their bias with Brandon or city Council?

[00:35:03] Morgan: Well first of all, we just have to recognize that some of these reporters are the police. 

[00:35:08] Caullen: Say it again! 

[00:35:10] Morgan: Yeah. They simply are the police. And. So I always call out Mary Ann Ahern, who's the- 

[00:35:19] Caullen: THAT'S her name! I was trying to find it the other day. I know exactly who you're talking about. Okay, thank you. 

[00:35:23] David: I don't know who she is now, but I hate her. 

[00:35:25] Caullen: If you'd see her, you be like, oh yeah.

[00:35:26] Morgan: Yeah, at NBC5, whose ex-husband, now, is Tom Ahern, who's like head of CPD communications or something like that. And so whenever she's like, oh, sources say... I'm like, what sources, Mary Ann??! I feel like you need to... YOU of all people need to tell us what sources.

[00:35:42] Caullen: Basic journalistic ethics. Like, it's not..

[00:35:44] Morgan: I feel like you should be required to tell us what sources they are. And also to disclose, every time you do political coverage, that you are directly connected to the police and possibly collecting an alimony check or something from.... 

[00:35:58] Caullen: Damn.

[00:35:58] David: Yo!

[00:35:59] Morgan: You know, to me, it's like you're being funded by these people in, you know, who cares? It needs to be said. There's another reporter from Fox 32 that I can't remember her name, who was just going off about these kids who went downtown and created mayhem and everything, who was just going off about that. And people were just like, yeah, her husband is a police officer. So it's just like, all of these things, all of these connections where people want to say, yeah, the TRiiBE is progressive or alternative or whatever, it's like, alternative to who? 

[00:36:32] Caullen: Alternative to the truth. 

[00:36:32] Morgan: Like, alternative to who though? It's just like, the neutral point of view is already anti-Black because if you're going by the status quo, the status quo is Black. So if you're left of the status quo, then.... I don't know, it just depends on whose center you are. Because it's like, MY center has to be for my own survival and my own future, so it's not radical to me, it's radical to YOU. So yeah, all of these people, a lot of people, are the police. 

[00:37:04] Caullen: That is so frustrating.

[00:37:05] Morgan: So yeah, the narrative that Chicago is going to, it's going to be blood on the streets and all of that, it's just racism. And I do think that there's going to be a lot of people who don't want this administration to succeed because if it does, we have to remember Chicago doesn't have term limits on the mayorship, I don't know what that's called. 

[00:37:26] David: Yeah, mayorship, that's right. 

[00:37:29] Morgan: So it's like Brandon could just be in office for a very long time, and progressives could really have a true progressive. And I think that's really scary for a lot of the establishment- Democrats and Republicans. So if he stays true to those values, which we have to hold him accountable for that. 

[00:37:50] Caullen: So much going on in my head. One thing I do like that I appreciate, I read an article from y'all the other day, and... I forgot what happened, but it was, there wasn't much information out in the world, and you all said, if what the police are saying is true... x, y, z. Which normally, other news outlets are like, police said this, this is a fact. And it's like, noo.. And y'all were naming like, hey, this is some information we got, let's just name the source, and IF it is true- 

[00:38:20] Morgan: if it is true, cause that always has to be said. We always have to remind the people that police lie. Especially CPD, where it's documented that they have a history of violating the civil rights of Black people in this city. So why should we believe anything that they say? We don't treat them as official sources whose voice has more weight than any bystander. We just will report what they say with a context that like, by the way, these people lie. 

[00:38:51] Caullen: And actually in the story, now I'm remembering it, was the police killed someone the other day. And so like, you're obviously in the story as well, so it's even more reason to check you. But it's like, I shouldn't be impressed by reading that in an article. That should be baseline, you know what I mean? So to your point as far as like, We are not the radical ones. The status quo is the part that is so violent, but we've been so propagandized for so long that this is okay. That is really, really interesting. And I wanted to go back to the panel thing, I see that as the veneer of encoding a lot of this, and professionalism, and what that actually means and stuff. 

[00:39:24] Morgan: Yeah, and we've been thinking about how to systematize our philosophy, our journalistic philosophy, so that it can be used as educational materials. That's something that we're going to be working on over the next couple of years; because, again, all of these... the way that people report, it's taught to them. A lot of people are not thinking critically about the language that they use. There's a formula for reporting on crime: you go to the crime scene, you use that image of police tape and a police car and you put that on there, and then you do a headline "10 shot. Two fatally." 

[00:40:04] Caullen: "And right here about is where we last saw the perpetrator." 

[00:40:07] Morgan: Yeah. And then you get a quote of somebody who's been harmed, and then some police quotes. And you know, that's your story. And that's like, just a journalistic formula that's out there. Nobody's thinking about, what is the impact of this type of work? Is it helpful? Does it help to deter future crime? It's just like, this is how we do crime stories, and it's... people click on it, it's working for us, so, cool. And that's all. But for us who we love Black Chicago, we want to see people live, we know that that's not helpful and in some cases reporting on crime in this way can actually amplify gang wars if that's what it is. Like, some people in the community want to see a news article or a TV clip about a murder that they just committed. Like, that's a thing. So we don't even think about that side of it as well. 

[00:41:01] Caullen: Yeah. Things are so surface, to think, why would someone want that kind of clout? How are we talking about toxic masculinity? Are we talking about these deeper things that American society does on a large and that trickles down to folks, like actually goes down to folks. 

[00:41:14] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:41:14] Caullen: Why you would want that for yourself, and self esteem, and mental health, and it goes on and on and on- but like, that's too much. We need to show the thing and move on. 

[00:41:21] Morgan: We don't even report on intra community crime. That's not a beat that we have. And a part of what we're trying to do is actually reshape, what is crime? Because it's a very very narrow focus that mainstream media likes to highlight. So during election season there were so many TV debates where it was like, what are you going to do about crime? And the audience just assumes that we're talking about gun violence or theft. Okay, but what about corporate looting? What about Walmart taking public funds, or Walgreens or whoever, and being like, we're going to develop this project and Put a bunch of them on the south side, and they make all these promises about how they're going to integrate and help community, and then they just leave and don't fulfill those promises. Like, isn't that theft? Didn't you just steal a bunch of tax dollars? But we don't talk about that as an action that's criminal, where someone should be held accountable for those types of things. But yeah, we care about somebody smashing and grabbing at the Gucci store for a couple thousand dollars worth of merchandise- when we're getting like robbed out of hundreds of thousands of tax dollars through corporate looting, through wage theft, people just not paying people a living wage... that's wage theft, but we don't talk about that as criminal activity. We're very limited in our definition of crime. 

[00:42:46] Caullen: I mean, crime, we can talk about a whole different episode. You know what I mean? But no, you're right. And it's just like, it's also- it's all those things, but it's also like... the economy affects people's lives in a very literal way. Healthcare affects people's lives in a really literal way. All that money that's going into that energy and capacity for making legislation that's doing that is something that can be used to uplift life-affirming institutions. And that without that, not addressing the root causes of the crime, or the decades of intentional disinvestment and intentional policy to harm people, we're not actually helping people live.

[00:43:20] And so I think you can be very literal about that as far as like, life is not happening because we're doing this. And one of the things tying narrative and, really just mythology, and these narratives together with what it actually is, is the whole "tough on crime", crime mantle. It's like, again, it's factually incorrect. These policies have been going on for, arguably forever, but especially World War II on, neoliberalism, we get Reagan, we get all the Daley's and everything, but we have all these policies that are "tough on crime" to booster up mass incarceration. Again- 

[00:43:54] Morgan: Mass incarceration only for a select group, because when they're "tough on crime", it's not for the people who are doing high-level white-collar fraud or something like that. It's always the less resourced group of society that's being targeted for these tough on crime policies and messaging. 

[00:44:16] Caullen: Yeah. Bank of America, several other ones are funding Cop City. We have the bailout for the banks in 2008, which didn't help anything. And so it's just... it's actually not- it's very soft on crime. If we're gonna use actual literal language on how things work and how we're not... not only giving life-affirming institutions, but supporting life in a really real way, it's not what it actually is. We're always really "tough on crime", like, in quotes, whenever we think about it or talk about it because it's not. So if we are talking about crime, we are looking at root causes, we are doing more progressive policies, we are defunding the police, we are trying to institute communities and economies of care that are actually real around it- and that people are already doing, but it's just not funded. And so it's like, imagine if we actually funded some of these systems and things, and we put effort into narrative change on a mass level.

[00:45:12] Like, what if Soapbox and the TRiiBE had the funds that the Tribune, or MSNBC, or CNN had? You know what I mean? And so, whenever I see that, I just, I get angry for the obvious reasons, but also like, this is literally untrue. The facts and the research, my opinions and politics aside, don't bear this to be true. And so what you're doing is you're lying to people. But people, I think really honestly believe that; and to me, it's always such an eye opening example of how much we've been propagandized. 

[00:45:38] And, I'll say this before I move on, but it's like, when looking at... when trump and Qanon and that whole scene, when liberals look at that, like, that is crazy. Like, how can you believe all these crazy things about Qanon or whatever? I'm like, yeah, that is crazy, I agree. However, you believe in Biden, so like, what are we doing? It's very tough for me to think about these things.

[00:46:04] Morgan: I mean, there comes a point where truth doesn't even matter, right? 

[00:46:06] Caullen: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:46:06] Morgan: I was just saying about Chicago being branded as the most violent city in the country, it's not technically true, but it's true to some people because it's just their reality. And then it's true to some people because it's just what they choose to believe, and they live by that, so narratives that really matter. 

[00:46:27] David: Yeah, and I'm just connecting this right, like, having immigrant parents, they never really watched the news, but I didn't realize at a young age... the little that they saw, whether that was on a headline on a newspaper something like that, really impacted- You know what we see in a lot of Latino cultures with colorism to a degree. And so it's like, to me growing up and unlearning that, I think is incredible. And I'm just curious, a young person growing up today having outlets like the TRiiBE to be able to look to, to your point, and kind of dig through that rabbit hole, I think it's incredibly inspiring; but it leads me to continue to think of like- you said something, that I'm curious on, in regards to your audiences, right? For our listeners, what is.... who is the TRiiBE's audience? 

[00:47:15] Morgan: Yeah, so since the TRiiBE were founded and owned by three millennials, I'm one of them, and we really started out wanting to reshape the narrative of Black Chicago through a Black millennial experience and perspective, and so that has been our core audience since we started in 2017. We've expanded though, Gen Xers are probably our- they ARE our number two. And then, yeah, Gen Xers are our number two, and then we do get some Gen Z in there as well. I think the difference is that we do cater our content to address these different groups, and especially young people. We think about... we don't just drop long form investigative stories or something. 

[00:48:04] We've learned that if we're going to talk about a topic, we need to do a series of stories leading up to an investigative piece that just educates people on what's going on. So you'll notice that a lot of our stories- well, I'm going to step back. For this election season, we dropped a piece called "Are there too many Black people running for mayor?" And it set Instagram and Twitter on fire. And people were just like, "this is anti-Black". And, "we're not a monolith". And, "yes, we need all of these voices, and the more Black people there are the more chance that we have". And we were just like, 

[00:48:42] Caullen: I hear you... 

[00:48:42] Morgan: I hear you, but.... having the most candidates does not necessarily mean that you have the best chance. It's like, a lot of them are going to cancel each other out. It makes elections more difficult to cover because now us as journalists have to spend time with all of these different people, and therefore we have less time to investigate all of them. And we were trying to show them something's going on by the fact that there's so many Black people running, because we are a voting bloc that can very much decide elections.

[00:49:20] So we were trying to bring all that nuance into the equation, and by releasing that story it was just like, hmm, this was a nice temperature check to know that our audience doesn't quite understand the nuances of political strategy. And so then we had to step back and promote a series of stories about just history, like how did Harold Washington win? You know, stories like that, that broke down.. 

[00:49:47] Caullen: Looking at history and context? 

[00:49:49] Morgan: Yeah. And kind of brought on political strategies and things like that to help people unpack and understand. And we've learned that when we educate our audience, they're just like, with us.

[00:50:02] Caullen: Cause they trust you. You know what I mean?

[00:50:04] Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. We do have that trust. So if- there's this myth that young people don't care about civic engagement, it's like, no, I think they're just not being taught. I think we've just completely gone away from teaching about civic engagement. So yeah, we do everything through that lens of like, let's explain this like we're talking to a high schooler, let's break it down. Let's not assume that people know these complex ideas, and piecemeal it: do different formats, articles, let's do Tik TOK videos, let's do cartoons, let's do whatever we got to do to get people engaged. Yeah. The infographics, all of that.

[00:50:41] Cause a lot of people may not have paid attention to the article, but then when we dropped "Top Cop Candidate of the Week", which was my idea, by the way, I'll pat myself on the back. *applause and laughing*. There was a moment where I was just watching debates and just being like, is everybody a cop? Does anybody have a new idea at all? So it's just like, if they're all cops, let's just say like... let's just give them an award. You are the Top Cop of this week since you're vying for that position. 

[00:51:07] Caullen: you're an elected, you want attention anyway. Let's just give it to you.

[00:51:10] Morgan: And people love that. We tried to think about what's missing from the conversation and to fill in those gaps. 

[00:51:16] Caullen: The... yeah, I love that, educating your audience. But also knowing they're smart too, and going like, giving, here are the tools and here's this history, you're coming to your own conclusion. And I remember that article dropped, too, and all of that hubbub, I was like, okay, I'm just going to wait to read this. Let that thing cool off and see what else they come up with. 

[00:51:35] But it's funny- I think it's two things, I think it's 1) hearing that "we're not a monolith", like, all that kind of stuff, which is like, your feelings are like, you're right. And your feelings are valid, let's go from there. But also, it's this myth of the post-racial society, right? Where it's like, okay, we're gonna vote on everyone because of the merits of what they present. That's not true, unfortunately. Paul Vallas was "the great white hope" for all these reasons of him just being a mediocre white man feeling his way to the top. Like, it matters there's one white candidate, one Latino candidate, and a lot of Black candidates. And so I think you guys brought that up too, as well, and it's like, we're not- and so why I didn't see that being named as much was legacy media and things. But then a lot of people were talking about the Black vote and Latino vote, and are they going to vote for Chuy or not? And what's going to happen? It's like, if we can talk about those things, can we talk about the white vote? And how he's "the great white hope", and can we name that? And name it in the same breath as casually as you're talking about, what Black people are going to do? Like, you can do it, you talk about race! 

[00:52:30] Morgan: Despite all of these failures, somehow he just got all of this support!

[00:52:33] Caullen: How did this happen?! Wowww, it's crazy! 

[00:52:36] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:52:36] Caullen: It's like, we can talk about race, but if we're talking about race, let's talk about race! You know what I mean? So, I appreciate that from y'all, of course; but it's something I saw a lot, and I'm just like, are y'all stupid? And I think I mentioned this to David several times in the past several months, but I'm like, it's just bad journalism. And it's encoded white supremacy, all the -isms we know to be true; but sometimes- I've read some articles from the fall to now, I'm just like, yeah, I have my politics and my experience, whatever, but this is just... you didn't do your research. This is bad journalism. 

[00:53:05] Speaking about journalism, I'm really curious for your thoughts- the narrative of how Obama is situated in the conversation with Brandon Johnson winning, but also even before that. I have plenty of thoughts, but I'm just curious, what have you seen? What have you been thinking about, if anything? How folks have brought him in or out of the conversation of Brandon winning, what that means or how they're alike or not alike?

[00:53:32] Morgan: Yeah. I mean, I'm curious about Obama's silence when it comes to endorsing power. I mean, I'm curious about J.B. Pritzker's silence when it came to endorsing power. 

[00:53:43] Caullen: And he would endorse alders but not a mayor, which is... 

[00:53:45] Morgan: Yeah, that was very interesting... At the end of the day, they need this library to be built, and they don't want to piss off either side so that they can make sure that they don't run into any hiccups with this library being built. I think that was the play there. Yeah. 

[00:54:03] Caullen: I did not think about it like that. That's interesting. There's definitely national outlet stuff we're talking about as well. But I mean, I just saw a couple articles... I mean, a lot of things just comparing like, oh, Obama led the way, kind of thing, for Brandon. I'm like, he didn't though. 

[00:54:20] Morgan: Who said that? 

[00:54:21] Caullen: Oof, I'll send you some stuff. 

[00:54:24] David: Please peep the episode notes. 

[00:54:26] Caullen: The main one, this is not the one that said that, but the main one I saw that was just like, *confusion noise*, was good old Tribune. "Mayor-elect Brandon Johnson found a place in his acceptance speech for God. But not Barack Obama", which sounds like an Onion article. I thought it was an Onion article the first time I saw that. 

[00:54:41] Morgan: You always have to preface the Chicago Tribune, and just say whether a reporter said it or... the editorial board. 

[00:54:48] Caullen: It is editorial. I will admit it is the editorial board. 

[00:54:49] Morgan: The editorial board is clearly a bunch of conservative wackos who just say crazy things every once in a while, and really embarrass their entire staff. I'm just like, it has to be embarrassing to work there. And why, first of all, why are we pairing God and Obama together? I think they just wanted to create mess. I think that's what that was. Like, how can we create a divisive narrative here? Obama wasn't somebody who endorsed Brandon, so he's not necessarily someone who Brandon needed to name.

[00:55:26] But you see Brandon's campaign, nevertheless, responded by staging some phone call or something between him and Obama, to just address it. And I think it's also just... they... I think it's very important for Republicans or anyone vying for political power, and doesn't want Brandon to succeed, to show that he's not going to be able to pull the Democratic Party left. 

[00:55:58] Caullen: Sure. Put those devisive notes out there.

[00:56:03] Morgan: I don't think the democratic establishment wants to go there, but Brandon has now shown that there's a path to winning, 

[00:56:08] Caullen: and it's possible.

[00:56:09] Morgan: It's possible.

[00:56:09] Caullen: Defund candidate can't win, all this rhetoric. 

[00:56:11] Morgan: Exactly. So all of that stuff that we were told doesn't get people elected, Brandon just showed that that's not true. So now it's like, they want to show some democratic infighting or whatever. And then Brandon's campaign is just like, okay, I want to play that game, so I'll just go hang out with Obama; and Obama gave me some advice for like, how to be a good dad or something. And that's how they did that. It's just like, we're cool, umm... And then of course they got the democratic national convention, which was like... it was a political flex, I thought. But you know, I think for progressives, it's a little bit like, ehhh... ehhh... 

[00:56:51] Caullen: I haven't talked to too many folks in leftists or movement spaces about that. And like, I... hold electoral politics where it should be; I was excited about Brandon, and other alders and stuff. And I think material change can happen, on some level from that can be fostered. So, I'm curious to your point too, as far as that trying to do inception on the DNC and the Democrats, Illinois and Barack, as far as progressives and establishment folks can get along, which has obviously been brewing for a long time. We're seeing chinks in that ceiling, and that hard centrist shield. And so I'm curious with, not that, where the DNC has mattered as much as it did in previous generations or previous cycles, but it being here with Brandon Johnson as the mayor. And I don't know how that works behind the scenes, but what can that maybe mean for more progressive folks come next cycle?

[00:57:50] Maybe it's nothing, but I think it only... it only is there nothing or it helps, I don't think it hinders. So I'm just- if it wasn't for him winning, I really wouldn't care, but I'm just very curious to see what the next couple years present, generally speaking, both in movement and politics. 

[00:58:05] Morgan: I think there is an opportunity for progressives to help shape the national democratic platform. So we're going to see now if the democratic establishment is actually going to move left and elevate some of these ideas, because Joe Biden, just before that announcement was talking about how cities need to get tougher on crime. So he was actually spewing-

[00:58:28] Caullen: AND campaigned on that.

[00:58:28] Morgan: Yeah, and he was spewing that Republican talking point. It's like, are we finally going to drop that and just talk about- have a more nuanced conversation on crime? And can we replicate these strategies nationwide? I think the DNC is going to really help us understand whether that's going to happen or whether it's not, or if they're going to try to quiet progressive voices. Because Brandon has the opportunity to get some revolutionaries on stage, and we'll see. And the revolutionaries will come. Whether they are invited or not, I do believe that the revolutionaries will be there. They will be inside on stage, or they will be protesting and with the TV cameras. Because right now, what DNCs, and any big convention does, they bring a lot of money to the hotel hospitality industry, a lot of money to the retail community; all those business people who were upset about Brandon or whatever, this is gonna bring a lot of money for them. There's probably going to be some development around it that may displace some more people and drive up rents even more. So that's what I'm saying, it's already going to be a hit to the community. So I'm interested to see if they're going to really elevate the progressive platform or not. 

[00:59:41] Caullen: Or what safeguards Brandon and his administration will put when a large thing, something comes. Like, say the DNC is coming, are you going to put- not necessarily a CBA, but something to make sure that shit doesn't happen? We had the Olympic bid in 2016, which luckily we didn't get; but it's like, if something like that happens, how do you have these big events, even concerts, or any- maybe not NASCAR- other things, and have things that people actually want but also protect folks that live here.

[01:00:12] And I think it's possible, but y'all are making these choices, right? So I'm more curious in what happens in the next couple years than I normally would be if it was another Lightfoot or a Daley Jr., or a Rahm, especially. And it's not as, to your point, to our point in this episode and the last one, always holding folks accountable and not really trusting folks, especially as they get in the seats; but also knowing that we have their ear more than before. 

[01:00:38] Morgan: And I don't know if you noticed, but Brandon dropped the names of his transition committee this morning. And on that list was Kennedy Bartley. There's also Jitu Brown on there, like OG organizer... so we got some representatives up in there. We got Dr. Barbara Ransby up there on the transition committee, so I'm feeling a little bit hyped by the representation there. Yeah, I'm interested to see what they come up with. 

[01:01:11] Caullen: I did not see that. Yeah. The inside/outside strategy, as far as other cities, mainly smaller cities, as far as their council people or what have you, who are organizers working in tandem with movement very directly the whole time. There's an In These Times article, I'll link on the episode notes, but we've never seen on this level. And Byron put me on game last episode about how Brandon really took the place of Karen Lewis from years ago as far as running and coming from that CTU family in a lot of ways. And so I'm, again, very curious. I did not know that about, earlier, that makes me feel a little bit better. The last thing I heard about his team was like, there was some Daley dude in there and I was like, Hmm... So it's a... it's a mix. And I get- 

[01:01:53] Morgan: It's a chief of staff, is a long-time establishment city hall person. I feel like they're really trying to strike this balance of being like, let me add a couple of white people on here that people know, so that these people don't try to blow up this entire city while I'm here. So... yeah. 

[01:02:14] Caullen: 100- like, actually. 

[01:02:15] Morgan: Actually though. 

[01:02:19] David: Well, and I think there's definitely a lot that we can continue expounding on in the ways these dominant narratives have been harmful. But I think it's been really enlightening to hear ways in which the TRiiBE has been challenging that and pushing forth. What I was kind of curious in as we kind of start wrapping up here- in your bio, you named producing and directing, and Soapbox, we're filmmakers at heart in ways and forms. Just curious how- if you could speak to how that background, or having that experience, continues to influence? And I know you named a little bit of that, specifically like, the camera and the focus. But what are other ways that you have found it helpful in the work you do? 

[01:03:03] Morgan: Thanks for that question. I studied documentary in college. And the first time I went and took a camera out into the community was while I was studying at Northwestern. There was a young man named Derrion Albert, whose death went viral for the first time. It was just like YouTube was becoming a thing. He was beaten by a wooden plank in Roseland by a group of teenagers. He was 16 years old. And I remember that being the first viral video of Black death. And I took a camera and stepped out of Northwestern's community for the first time. I was just like, I want to go to Roseland and learn about that community and see what's going on. 

[01:03:51] That was probably the early seed of the TRiiBE, and me being interested in Chicago narratives. Because I saw the way that tv news picked this up, and I was like, I can't believe they're showing this video of this boy being 

[01:04:06] David: on replay. 

[01:04:07] Morgan: Beaten to death on replay. It was so traumatic for me. And I had this feeling of like, this is wrong. This is sensationalized. So things like that lived with me, lived with me, and lived with me. But as a documentary filmmaker, we are taught about audience and we're taught about impact before we go out into the field. They were often asking us questions, when I was interning with Kartemquin here in Chicago, of just like, What audience are you trying to reach? And that would kind of shape the questions that we ask, and what we call the impact strategy. And so I would go to Tiffany who had studied at Medill, which is supposed to be the best journalism school in the world. 

[01:04:52] David: Supposedly..

[01:04:53] Caullen: Mizzou, out here.. I'm just saying. 

[01:04:56] Morgan: Yeah, no shade to Medill, thank you for all that you've done *laughing* to support us over the years, but still, what is the journalism establishment these institutions are teaching? So I would go to Tiffany and be like, Hey, so what's going on with journalism? Why is it so bad? Why is it so traumatic? Why is it so anti-Black? And trying to get those answers out of her, and her just being like, I don't know. I'm from North Lawndale, and they told me to forget about everything that I'm from; and forget about all the ways that I write, and take my Black voice out of the story, and do this, and do that. And I was just like, Hmm. And we would have these debates about how we're taught in documentary versus how we're taught in journalism; and being like, I think we should just go against that. Like, take what makes sense and then just do what feels the most impactful for the audience that we're trying to reach.

[01:05:55] So for the TRiiBE and our stories we don't produce a bunch of stories per day. We probably put out two or three stories per week, but we are thinking about impact strategy for every single story. And that impacts the questions that we ask, ait impacts the headline that we write. Like, sometimes it's literally a team meeting for just looking at the headline and just being like, are any of these words harmful, could they be taken and used and skewed by any bad political actors? Because sometimes you put out stories with good political intentions, and bad actors can take them and flip it, you know? So we think about all of the ways that the narrative could have a ripple effect in the community. And when we feel good about it, when we workshopped it out, then it's just like, we release it. 

[01:06:44] So yeah, I don't know that we would ever be a 24 hour news cycle type of group, because we work in this way. And we've found that it's more impactful to do it this way. Because people tune in, our loyal supporters, they're looking for every single article because every article counts. There are no weird filler articles. Yeah, we don't just put something out because it's like, oh, we need a story to put out today. It's... they have a purpose, and they have an impact that we are predicting. Yeah. 

[01:07:18] Caullen: I love that. And it's interesting too, cause we all started a couple- I guess at this point several years ago, close a decade ago. And it's like, how social media and the digital landscape, in general, has changed so much since then. And how it's a weird, at least I feel, this weird balance of leaning into that. And maybe Brandon Johnson wins, y'all post on Instagram, hey, this happened... there's gonna be more later. Like, I'm still giving you something that you maybe normally wouldn't have seen, but also there's gonna be more later. And so I had to be like, lean into- really the fast paced ness of news, and really social media; but also still have your integrity, still ethically go through things, still research shit, and still give people what they need, and then build that trust. They're gonna wait. And then when you have that article, or have that movie, or have that micro doc, whatever, they're going to lean into it and pour into it when it's out. And learn from it, and feel different, and think differently about larger issues that impact their lives. 

[01:08:12] Morgan: Yeah, and it's like, we're just not making editorial decisions based on capitalism. I mean, we're actually unique in that we're not a nonprofit newsrooms, for various reasons. But one of them being like, we're gonna say whatever we need to say, and so.... if we're partisan today, then we got to be partisan today. We're never going to say we're a non-partisan news organization. But there's other reasons. But we're not making decisions based on, we need to drive traffic to the website today.

[01:08:41] Sometimes it's just like, we need to be present. That doesn't mean that it has to be on thetriibe.com- we'll have content running through our social media channels, we'll be visible in community. There are other ways to impact narrative and educate people than just posting things so the ads can be collecting dollars or whatever. 

[01:09:04] David: Yeah, because we're still in the system, and still have to play the game. I hear that. I hear that. 

[01:09:10] Caullen: *whispering* Or do you? 

[01:09:11] David: Well, I mean- and you don't. You don't. No, no, I hear that. 

[01:09:15] Morgan: I mean, we've learned that we could be authentic and we've gotten points with the community for that. Some people like that we tell it like it is. And in our most combative times the community has actually really gone up for us and just being like, screw what these people are saying, support the TRiiBE. So yeah. We really, like, jerking the system has really helped us, actually. 

[01:09:40] Caullen: I went to film school at DePaul, but I had a documentary class- it was like, fine. I didn't really get that training, like, documentary training- for better or for worse. And most of my documentary learnings, interview learnings was just by doing it... and a little bit in grad school. But I think about our work, and what is our bottom line? It's like, uplifting movement, being a part of uplifting movement, right? And part of that foundation is being a part of campaigns, organizations, and struggles, and what have you. And so it's like, yeah, before we even- now, especially, but it's been a mix of things as far as our projects. Yeah, we're in the meetings, doing the stuff, David's making sure the press conferences are going right, you know. I mean, then also we'll bring the cameras, and also make a micro doc that's in the voice of the campaign; but uplifting what's happening within the broader struggle and the broader better analysis that's not just about this one issue, but how this issue is part of a continuum of issues. There's a name for that. That's, again, leaning into context, history, facts. But it's also uplifting and moving towards liberation, even if it's not going to happen tomorrow. So I really appreciate that about the stuff we do, and I think there's been trust in that with community over time, as well, that didn't come overnight.

[01:10:53] David: And to me, I think something that I really appreciate hearing from you, Morgan, is like, some of this isn't academic, some of it is just what we live and our experience. And that in itself is its own truth, right? And so, like, you can't tell me that cops aren't harassing when I'm seeing it on a daily basis in my life, you know what I'm saying? So, I don't know. I really appreciate that. And using that as the stepping stone to how we then take what we've also learned academically, or not, or through experience, and just on the field type shit, and mesh that. Because I think, for me, it's been really exciting to unlearn a lot of shit that comes with the culture, that comes with being a dude, specifically in America and Chicago. I didn't ask to be here, I was supposed to be born in Mexico, but you know, YOLO. 

[01:11:34] But I still think it's in that process now that I've found my place, as I feel we all have, right? And we're... I feel ever more empowered as we continue to build with community members. Because to your point, that's who holds us accountable. That's who.. And that's also who we're doing it for. I'm doing it for my little brother, so he can not have his school closed down type attitude. Because folks, believe it or not, they don't think about it until it happens to them. And that's always so unfortunate. I think something with Soapbox, and the reason why I love storytelling, is specifically to be able to create that level of empathy that you may or may not have by looking at this thing for five minutes. You know what I'm saying? Where I grab you in with this sassy little thing, that I feel like that's why it's been cool to see that develop into your journalism type world. And so we appreciate you for that. 

[01:12:20] Morgan: Thank you. 

[01:12:22] David: But I think, other than that, once again, thank you so much for joining us. Wanna give you an opportunity to give any shout outs to any peoples, or anybody. Any love out there? Or fuck yous too. I don't know. 

[01:12:34] Caullen: We're all about the fuck yous. This is not a traditional podcast. You could be yourself. Just give it to us. 

[01:12:39] David: I've been drinking Kahlua all morning, so... Is it morning? 

[01:12:43] Caullen: It's almost noon. It's five minutes til noon, but we're drinking. It's Bourbon 'n BrownTown, so we're tall. Don't do the "5 a.m. somewhere" thing. Don't do "5 p.m. somewhere". We're trying to unlearn that toxic, like, "drinking all the time" language, at least. We're still doing it in the podcast. I'm thinking about that more lately. 

[01:13:00] David: Caullen holding us accountable. Shout out.

[01:13:02] Caullen: I'm trying.

[01:13:02] David: Go ahead, Morgan. 

[01:13:04] Morgan: My team, obviously. The TRiiBE. Everybody who's been supporting us. You know... it's gang gang for the TRiiBE. Obviously, Tiffany, David, yeah, who holding me down. Yeah. 

[01:13:18] David: We'll get you through it. 

[01:13:19] Caullen: Y'all like a DJ tag: the TRiiBE! I don't know why that... first thing that came to mind.. But y'all need a DJ tag. 

[01:13:24] Morgan: We are going to be hosting events and things like that. We're really getting back out into the community. Like when we started, we used to do a monthly event, TRiiBE Tuesday. So, all of that stuff is coming back. So, just stay tuned. Yeah.

[01:13:38] David: Love it. And stay tuned. And so as always, peep the episode notes for any and all information. Keep up with the TRiiBE if you don't already. And from Bourbon 'n BrownTown, as always, stay Black, stay Brown, stay queer. 

[01:13:49] Caullen: Stay tuned. Stay turnt. 

[01:13:50] David: We'll see you for the next one. 

OUTRO

(Soundbite from Tahman Bradley of WGN on run-off election night, April 4, 2023.)

[01:13:52] Tahman Bradley: In the late 1990s the establishment directed Paul Vallas to come up with a metrics to determine when schools were failing. About a decade later, 50 failing schools were closed. It sparked a movement. People said, do not take away our resources. Don't take our neighboring schools, forcing kids to travel farther to go to schools, increasing violence because kids dropped out of schools. Fast forward 10 more years, that movement that was birthed, a direct line from Paul Vallas and Mayor Daley's policies in the late 1990s. Fast forward to where we are today, that movement took the fifth floor of City Hall.