BrownTown takes on "La Plataforma 2" (2024) with Alderhomies Rossana Rodriguez (33rd) and Jessie Fuentes (26th) about a vertical prison where those inside are fed off of a descending platform, leaving only the diminishing leftovers for those below. BrownTown and the alderhomies breakdown the second installment noting the commentary on governance systems, resistance factions and social movements, relational ethics, and abolition.
BrownTown takes on "La Plataforma 2" (2024) with Alderhomies Rossana Rodriguez (33rd) and Jessie Fuentes (26th) about a vertical prison where those inside are fed off of a descending platform, leaving only the diminishing leftovers for those below. BrownTown and the alderhomies breakdown the second installment noting the commentary on governance systems, resistance factions and social movements, relational ethics, and abolition.
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GUESTS
Alderwoman Rossana Rodriguez (33rd), now in her second term, is the Chair of the Committee on Health and Human Relations for the Chicago City Council. Rossana was born and raised in Puerto Rico and started organizing at six years old when her community had to fight for access to running water. Organizing soon became a fundamental part of her life and remains her main tool within her work in government. Rossana came to Chicago after austerity and budget cuts forced her to leave her job as a drama teacher in Puerto Rico. She originally moved to Albany Park to work as a theatre director with a youth theatre company 14 years ago and chose to stay and organize around housing, education, immigrant rights, and mental health. She is the chief sponsor for the Treatment Not Trauma legislation and continues to organize with grassroots organizations to transform Chicago. Follow Rossana on Facebook, Instagram, (personal, political) and Twitter (personal, political). Stay up to date with her City Council work and 33rd ward services at Rossanafor33.org.
Alderperson Jessie Fuentes (26th) is a queer Latina grassroots organizer, educator, and public policy advocate with over a decade of experience in education, criminal justice reform, affordable housing, community development and sustainability. A lifelong Chicagoan and resident of the Northwest side, Jessie spent most of her formative years growing up and working in Humboldt Park. Through personal resilience, community support and restorative justice, Jessie turned her most traumatic life experiences into tools to uplift others facing similar circumstances. In her previous roles as an educator and Dean of Students at Roberto Clemente Community Academy and as an organizer around issues of violence prevention, housing affordability, and re-entry for returning citizens, she convened and connected community stakeholders to create community-driven solutions to the biggest problems facing Humboldt Park. Jessie recently served as the Director of Policy and Youth Advocacy at the Puerto Rican Cultural Center. She Co-chaired the Violence Prevention program of the Illinois Latino Agenda and is also a Founding Member of the Illinois Latino Agenda 2.0, focusing on community development and Latine equity. Follow Jessie on Facebook (personal, political), Instagram (personal, political), and Twitter (personal, political). Stay up to date with her City Council work and 26th ward at Jessiefor26thward.com.
Opinions on this episode only reflect David, Caullen, Rossana, and Jessie as individuals, not their organizations or places of work.
CREDITS: Intro music Revolución and outro music End Credits by Aitor Etxebarria from the film's soundtrack. Episode photo from La Plataforma 2. Audio engineered by Kiera Battles and Kassandra Borah. Production assistance by Jamie Price.
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Bourbon ’n BrownTown
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BrownTown takes on "La Plataforma 2" (2024) with Alderhomies Rossana Rodriguez (33rd) and Jessie Fuentes (26th) about a vertical prison where those inside are fed off of a descending platform, leaving only the diminishing leftovers for those below. BrownTown and the alderhomies breakdown the second installment noting the commentary on governance systems, resistance factions and social movements, relational ethics, and abolition.
INTRO
Intro music Revolución by Aitor Etxebarria from the film's soundtrack.
BODY OF EPISODE
[00:01:01.000] - David
I'd like to welcome everyone to another installment of Bourbon 'n BrownTown. It's your boy, David, coming to you from Harambe Studios in Chicago, Illinois. As always, I'm with my boy, Caullen. C Huddy, bro, how are you doing today?
[00:01:33.910] - Caullen
I'm good. I'm excited. I'm angry! I have feels and thoughts about this film, but I'm excited to be here. It's been a morning, it's been an afternoon, but I'm excited.
[00:01:44.810] - David
Yeah, definitely feeling high. As the title alludes to, we are going into a Whiskey & Watching mode. And with us today are two guests who we've had for the Wakanda Forever, Jessie and Rossana. I'm going to give y'all an opportunity to speak to the audience, tell them how's life been since the little Wakanda Forever's recording with us. Go ahead, Jessie.
[00:02:11.720] - Jessie
Alderperson Jessie Fuentes, 26th Ward. Coming into this episode with a lot of discomfort.
[00:02:17.090] - David
Discomfort.
[00:02:17.390] - Jessie
We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. This film brings up a lot. But Northwest Side elected, super proud of doing some real preservation and housing work. Coming in to 2025 with a lot of wins. Fighting gentrification, preserving our communities, and making sure working families could stay in place. We could talk about that as it relates to the film, some poverty stuff, some class stuff, but we could get into that later.
[00:02:43.840] - David
For sure. What about you, Rossana?
[00:02:46.920] - Rossana
Rossana Rodriguez from the 33rd Ward, Albany Park. Since I was last here, we have reopened two mental health centers for the city of Chicago, which was a promise that we made, and I'm very excited that we have been able to keep that promise of creating better and stronger structures of care for our people, and excited to get into this.
[00:03:13.360] - David
Here we are engaging with the films because it was not that way, but it ended up being that way. We're talking about El Hoyo, which I also thought it was interesting on Netflix it's also called La Plataforma. It's also The Platform, I was like, I don't like this shit. I am curious, how did y'all watch the film or either of the films? Did y'all watch them in English dub, or English sub or completely in Spanish like I did? Because I watched them both completely in Spanish.
[00:03:42.220] - Caullen
I think if you were English dub, that's a different episode.
[00:03:44.850] - David
Just different. I am just curious to hear how y'all did that. Go ahead, Jessie.
[00:03:48.060] - Jessie
I watched La Plataforma.
[00:03:49.540] - David
Yeah, La Plataforma, Spanish.
[00:03:51.510] - Rossana
I watched English dub.
[00:03:53.490] - David
English Dubbed? Okay.
[00:03:54.980] - Caullen
Man, I thought I was going to be the only one. I watched English dub. I will say this- normally, I'll do English because I don't- I was in Spanish. I can get around.... Normally, I'll watch, if it's a foreign language film, I'll watch it in the language and do subtitles, but your boy be multitasking. I can't have my eyes on the screen all the time. I wish I did because I feel like I would have a different experience. But yeah, English dubbed.
[00:04:23.870] - David
Yeah, okay, cool.
[00:04:24.330] - Caullen
But shout out to the voice actors, they did a good job.
[00:04:26.900] - David
That's what I was hearing.
[00:04:27.740] - Rossana
I love that part of the subtitles because I grew up watching everything with subtitles because I'm Puerto Rican, and most of the movies just came with subtitles, so you develop that skill, like, hard. So whenever I hear people complaining of having to use the subtitles, I'm like, wow.
[00:04:45.010] - Caullen
No, I'm not going to complaining, I just couldn't look at the screen.
[00:04:46.500] - Rossana
No, I'm not saying you. I'm saying it is something that people say that it bothers them.
[00:04:50.340] - Caullen
I do think it's changing.
[00:04:51.310] - Rossana
Or it's an inconvenience to have subtitles in their movies. And I understand that. I just didn't realize the skill that I had developed and that a lot of people in Puerto Rico and in other places that consume movies in English, develop in order to be able to appreciate it.
[00:05:10.930]
[audio clip of La Plataforma 2 trailer] Good morning, neighbors. Another month in the pit. Once a day, a platform with food will go down. We'll have a few minutes to eat the dish we have chosen. One meal. Anything? Anything. Only eating our dishes. It's the law. We must obey the law, always without exception. If the law isn't respected, people die. Do you understand? You can't behave like a barbarian who eats whatever he likes. So the people down below are able to eat. This lamb is delicious, but I haven't eaten in two days. You know the reason why I'm here, right? And I want my pizza! An anointed one came. Dagin Babi is the strictest anointed one. One does not interpret the law, one obeys it. And if heads have to roll, then so be it. I need to escape. If you want to survive, get on. Let the revolution begin!
[00:06:36.240] - David
Quick rundown: and so La Plataforma 2, or El Hoyo 2, or whatever the fuck we're calling it. That's why I was like- It's just confusing. Why do people overcomplicate it? But it's also like, The Pit doesn't sound as good as The Platform and what's the emphasis here? But the idea here is we are invited to live through the perspective of a woman who is allowing herself to be put into what we're understanding to be a prison system. And in this system, there are multiple floors that are willy-nilly. So it's like, there is no math, there is no magic to where you get put and how. It's just where things start. But it's you and someone else. And every 30 days, you move to a different part of the platform. So now I get why is it's The Platform versus The Hole, it'd be more complicated.
[00:07:23.740] - David
And in this, there is the conversation of eating. And so a platform starts from ground zero, which we don't see in the second one, but we are taught about it in the first one, that is plated to perfection with items of everyone's choices, and it slowly makes its way down. At first, we don't know how many floors. I think our people start on floor 52 or some shit. So it's relatively okay, what have you. But the idea through this movie and the synopsis we're trying to end to is, we're seeing the experience of this person trying to survive, end up surviving. They go in with the idea of they just wanted some alone time. They just wanted time to think. And by the end, they're like- I'm trying to get the fuck out. And so really thinking of understanding what we know or what our protagonist perceives that they know, to what is the reality of the fact and how they come to qualms with all the things in between.
[00:08:24.820] - David
And so the idea, though, is that this food, which is fully stocked at platform zero. As it goes down, people engage with this food and eat it. I think in The Platform 2, we are invited to look at a system that literally created by prisoners- so I think that was interesting of how they keep each other accountable so that that platform can reach the bottom, which oftentimes we don't know what the bottom is. And so that's more of that synopsis. Of all the Whiskey & Watching films, they probably haven't seen this. And so if you haven't, we'll see how it goes. Maybe you can pause here, go watch it, come back.
[00:09:06.200] - Caullen
There'll be many spoilers.
[00:09:07.980] - David
Hella spoilers. But with that, I am curious to hear, how did y'all take or receive the film. Yeah. And then I want to sit with the second one, and then we can touch on the first one, and then we'll combine for the rest of the episode. But yeah, thoughts? Feels?
[00:09:26.570] - Jessie
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, I come into this film watching it as a Puerto Rican and Cuban with a dad who escaped communism and came to the United States. So when we talk about fair distribution, when we talk about systems of equity, but when not enforced appropriately, how it can make people flee or rebel or try to fight that very system. It's very much how my dad would articulate his experience in Cuba and why he came to the States. And then coming to a country that is rooted in capitalism, in which the people at the top get everything and the people at the bottom get shit. And so when I'm watching this film, I'm like- Oh, it's my life experience.
[00:10:13.510] - Caullen
I feel heard. Seen.
[00:10:16.540] - Jessie
I'm like- I understand. But there's a lot of discomfort in watching this film. And I had to grapple with all the things that came up for me, like the amount of violence that we see in the film, how graphic it was. But then having to come to terms with what caused the violence. And this reality of constantly needing to figure out how to survive this experiment. Because this vertical prison that the characters in the film are in is an experiment. Some of them opted into it. Some of them were placed there. Some of them-
[00:10:57.020] - David
Might live there.
[00:10:57.750] - Jessie
Some of them might live there. We don't know. Or in the first film, an employee goes in. There's so many different lived experiences on how people enter this experiment. But I think what's very clear is that people don't go in all knowing. You don't understand the system until you live in it. I'm really interested in Rossana's thoughts, but I was extremely uncomfortable. There's a lot of social issues we could talk about that this film brought up. But one of the things that I think stuck out very thoroughly is this overwhelming sense of greed that we see in the film. And the type of persecution and punishment that comes with your behavior of greediness.
[00:11:46.180] - David
I love that. Rosanna?
[00:11:49.050] - Rossana
I have so many thoughts, but first, I want to apologize to you, David. Because yesterday I texted, I was like- I'm never taking recommendations from you! I think part of it was that when I said- Yes, let's do The Platform- I didn't even research what The Platform was.
[00:12:10.100] - Caullen
She trusted her community.
[00:12:11.470] - Rossana
I just trusted my people. And I was like- Yes, I'm going-
[00:12:15.420] - David
There was three other choices!
[00:12:16.630] - Rossana
I didn't even think about the energy that it is going to take or where I was in my body. So I took it on as a task yesterday. It was almost like- And then I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do this. I didn't do any preparation.
[00:12:40.960] - Caullen
You didn't ground yourself.
[00:12:42.370] - Rossana
I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
[00:12:44.120] - David
She didn't even make popcorn.
[00:12:44.340] - Rossana
All of a sudden, I turned the TV and I am like- Oh, my God, I don't know if I can take this. And I started thinking about all that we have been through and what we are going through right now, and the level of stress under which we have been, like watching a genocide go down, like looking at fascism in the face. It's just a lot of violence constantly that we have been processing. And I think yesterday watching it, I completely understand a lot of the points that were being made as a work of art. And I was just struggling so much with the gore, with how violent it was.
[00:13:30.080] - Jessie
It definitely should have come with a trigger warning.
[00:13:31.360] - Rossana
Yes! I'm okay, though. I am okay. I survived it. But it was just a lot to take in. And it reminded me of how much more thought I have to put into the things that I do, and that I agree to do, because I love doing this with y'all. There was a lot of themes in that movie that were very important for me to sit with. I think the balance between freedom, the freedom of wanting to do whatever it is that you want to do, the freedom to take care of yourself. I think a lot about these narratives of self-care and how I have to make sure that I am okay, versus the well-being of the collective, versus how do we keep everybody alive? Versus how do we make sure that we protect people?
[00:14:31.500] - Rossana
And then also when we think about looking at this through an abolitionist lens, what happens to the people that don't care about the rest, that there is no way to make the system right, so fuck it, I'm just going to take care of myself. Well, we're going to take your arm, or we're going to take your leg, or we're going to kill you, or you're going to have a very violent death.
[00:14:54.460] - Rossana
So it was a lot to process and to think about because I felt trapped watching the movie. Like thinking, because I think that we are on a daily basis, we're trying to solve big problems and small problems. We go from a pothole to how do we provide affordable housing for 140 families? This is on a daily basis, we're having these thoughts and trying to strategize together. And I was sitting there with this situation thinking about, How would you, in this impossible situation that everybody is put in- which I feel like it is the situation in which we live constantly. And then I think also the reality that is given and then the choice. Like the fact that this woman was there because of guilt. She had her own prison that she had put herself in, and she went in from that perspective. Then the different prisons that everybody is inhabiting inside of their heads while they try to survive this other cage. There's a lot to talk about.
[00:16:12.660] - David
I love it. What about you, Caullen?
[00:16:15.070] - Caullen
I have feels. Thanks for just going through that, you two, and where you're coming into it, both for yourselves for that day and also who you are in the world. "As a black man!" naw, I'm playing. But I was watching... I watched the first one first cause I hadn't seen it. Then watched the second one. I thought what was interesting about the first one is that even in the trailer, the class analysis is very obvious, but not in an annoying, heavy-handed way. They're just like, Here's what it is. You know it. All right, let's move on. I also think that's why the guy kept saying, "Obviously". It was like a weird little motif.
[00:16:53.840]
[audio clip from La Plataforma] Mr. Trimagasi, do you know how this all works? It's obvious. We must eat. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's difficult. Depends on where you're assigned. The ones above won't answer! Really? Because they are above, obviously. Everything is really obvious to you, isn't it? How long you been here? Months.Many, many, many months.
[00:17:19.540] - Caullen
And so I felt like a very like, what do you do as an individual in this world who sees the inequity, obviously, hehe, but also trying to change it in a way. It was an individual lens of how do you change structures that are inequitable and wrong or whatever, and then dealing with someone else who doesn't have the same worldview as you do. Then also, I think what it did with the obviously guy showed a way of like, yeah, you don't like him, but he names certain things as far as how it works, as far as you're also not wrong, so how do I grapple with that?
[00:17:54.650] - Caullen
Fast forward to the second one, the one we're actually honing in on- it started off similar to the first one as far as like, here is the world. We're very obvious in the system that these people exist in, but also how they have self-organized. It's like neat seeing it, hearing nodes about it in the first one and seeing it actualized, oh, dope, all right. If we're starting here, shit's going to get ugly, because this is where you're supposed to get to the first one. But what are the cracks and crannies in this? You see that happen over time. Those are the things I appreciate about it. I think the beginning, middle, before the second act ended, I enjoyed it because I think what it did was… Obviously, it was individuals, because we had our main characters, but looked through it as a systems critique on a self-organizing critique, I guess.
[00:18:45.350] - Caullen
And the factions that came about in following these, who were first rules on how to survive, then named as laws, at least how I experienced it. But I think that language is important as far as like- Hey, everyone, here's what we should do. Here's why it works, and here's what we're doing, whatever. Then it being considered law, and no nuance whatsoever. Then taking the rhetoric of the state and the rigidity of the state to self-organize and then we see how factions exist and see how... I still think pros and cons of these different factions play out. The lens I saw it through was a self-organizing for liberation lens. I think, unlike the critics, I think the second one, to me, I gained more political social commentary through that than the first one. First one, there was good stuff there that was beyond the obvious. But I think this one, it was like- Oh, people say one word here, one phrase here. How are they actually seeing themselves in this unit or faction against this system that they created pretty recently, but it's part of a larger system that has put themselves in a fucking prison that has levels and is deeply, deeply inequitable.
[00:20:02.640] - Caullen
I think, you know, I live in America, so CIA propaganda against communism is what I'm used to, the baseline. You have to watch and unlearn that all the time, and so it didn't seem like it was like- See, communism's bad. Or like- See, capitalism and even dictatorship is all bad. But it was like- Here's how it plays out in this microcosm, what do you want to do with it? It felt messy in a way that I really actually appreciated. But then the end with some of the metaphorical fantasy stuff and people coming back. Even if it was a prequel, even with that, it still didn't work for me.
[00:20:37.850] - Caullen
As a viewer of film, I think the language of it near the end, it was first very real and grounded, then also was metaphorical and ethereal. I think for me as a viewer, I either want one of the two or mainly want and dip in the other one when it's intentional. I just didn't like how it manifested in the end. I don't think it's actually good or bad. I think I just was like, meh. Maybe that's how and when I was watching, I was tired. I was just trying to get through it. It was very much homework for me, even though I did enjoy it. I think it plays into it, too. That was my take.
[00:21:14.030] - Caullen
I'm glad we did watch. I think it is different from all the films we've watched before. We're all on different-ish pages, I guess. I think it was beautiful. And shout out to the sound design. The sound design went crazy. All these beautiful people acting well, whatever. But sound designers don't get a lot of credit, they sound designed their ass off. I want to just say that. I'm glad I watched it. I'm glad we watched it. But yeah, I just have mixed feelings.
[00:21:44.480] - David
Yeah, no, it's so real. And Rossana, one thing I want to name before we get too far is, I don't know why I was under the impression that... Or maybe one of y'all had seen it? So then when we talked, I was like, Oh, The Platform. Oh, yeah, I saw the first one. Oh, they got a new one or whatever.
[00:21:56.010] - Caullen
That's how he think we all sound.
[00:21:56.800] - David
I was under the impression that someone had said something of it. To me, I think I saw the first one back in 2020. I really enjoyed it for all the reasons that you already alluded to, Caullen, in terms of- we really get to live with this protagonist throughout the entirety. There's almost like, because of the way the system was working, he found, along with- because he didn't do it by himself. He did it with that homie. It's like...
[00:22:24.500] - Caullen
Shout out to my mans.
[00:22:25.480] - David
He got to a point where they get to the level, in that first film, and they see the old man in the wheelchair, and he said- No, the whole point is send food back. They're expecting- them, the system- is expecting us to kill each other and not send anything back. Why don't we send some food back up?
[00:22:40.100]
[audio clip from La Plataforma] All we're doing is we're trying to get the food passed along down to all levels. That is marvelous. Marvelous. But manners and education are more effective. Convince them instead of threatening them. Yeah, but what if they won't listen? You smack them. But first of all, dialog. Let me ask you this, just who will say, Aha, well, they must have succeeded? The administration? The administration doesn't consider this, that, or the other. But while the administration has no conscience, there's a chance that those who man level zero do. And that's where you need to your message. What do we send them then? What we need is an irresistible dish beautifully prepared and presented that remains intact and is sent back all the way to level zero.
[00:23:47.130] - Caullen
And the idea of a symbol being so revolutionary and part of the change.
[00:23:49.500] - David
And then not only that, but then they were trying to give the message, and the message didn't work. So what they did, they killed the motherfucker who was not fucking with the message. And so to me, it spoke to what we as as a society, sometimes, and in this future, will have to do in order for there to be some type of semblance of control. Because what was their goal? Their goal was, in the first film, once they got from zero to 50, then they wanted to feed everybody. Because that's really when the issue was happening. Floors one through 50, were eating every day. They were Gucci. You know what I'm saying? It's really from 50 under that were really dealing... And then once you get lower, because in the first film, we don't know how low it goes. The lowest we get is 202, which is fucking nuts. In the first film, my man is told by someone who was working there, there's only 200 floors. Ends up revealing, there's 333, so I am curious-
[00:24:39.810] - Jessie
Meaning, there's 666 people, two people per floor.
[00:24:44.970] - David
You got it. I was going to ask about the symbolism of the 333 number, but you hit it with the 666. It's like, so it's 666 individuals. And oftentimes, really, if I mean, I'm not whatever- but after the 70s, 80s, everybody else is… So really, you're looking at 60, 70% of the population is dealing with cannibalism, dealing with trying to live with each other type shit. And you see so many different aspects. And that's something that I liked about the second one.
[00:25:11.580] - David
But here's the last thing. I watched the second one, I was very disappointed I'm not going to lie to you. I was like, Man, what the fuck? This was in the first one. I was so pissed, deadass, 1:30 in the morning, and I was like- I got to watch the first one again. I'm like, You want to go to bed? You good? So we played it, and it made so much more sense to me! Then I go online, I'm like- Look at that shit. And someone was like- Oh, it's actually a prequel. And I was like, to me- and so to Caullen's point- it allowed for me enough to know more or just enough where I was like, All right, second one, you did your thing. Because then if we understand it, it's backward as homegirl was the one who comes into this system, where it's super specific. Because clearly, they've probably been in where the first one ends, which is just chaos and whatever. That's probably what happened at some point. Someone came through, there was the reference of the master or whatever the fuck. Then these anointed ones that followed the master.
[00:26:05.110] - David
So someone tried to create control. Homegirl comes through, realizes that control is a problem, communism, which I thought was also an interesting conversation because it's like, what are people willing to do to protect the law or protect what is right or whatever, whatever, whatever. Because well, if you don't do it- and then you end up realizing through the perspective of homegirl in the second film, they're like, It's fugazi. They're literally killing everyone on top so that no one below them gets food. And they're on like, level 112. So they're purposely sacrificing everyone under for the greater good. And so it brought those conversations into it. So I don't know.
[00:26:38.630] - David
I'd love to open it up to the floor because I know, Jessie, you've seen them both. Caullen, you've seen them both. You're going to be hearing a lot from us, Rossana. But bringing it back to that first one, because I do think we do see gruesomeness in the first one, not in the same way as the second one. So just stylistic choices as a filmmaker, it was just different. But I also think in the second one, we get to live in multiple people's perspective. We get to live in homegirl, buddy guy, and then the old guy to a degree. And even homegirl with the arm versus the first one, we're really just with one person the entire time. But I said a lot. Curious, thoughts, feels, directions?
[00:27:13.910] - Jessie
I appreciate the first film for all of the light footing on social issues, it really allows you to draw your own conclusions. And so does the second one, but in a very different way. I feel like they get a little more fantasy, a bit more than the first one.
[00:27:32.220] - David
For sure.
[00:27:33.060] - Jessie
But in the first one, Trimagasi is the older gentleman that's in the cell that the protagonist meets when he gets onto his platform. I didn't understand his pessimism right away. Because I'm like- Why is this dude so mean and so rude to this young cat that just got here? He just wants to understand. You know what I mean?
[00:27:54.030] - David
He's like- You got a good heart.
[00:27:54.860] - Caullen
You have one more question. Man, you like, ration questions?
[00:27:57.760] - Jessie
The protagonist immediately, in the first film, is like- no, we have to try to develop a system that doesn't allow anyone to starve. Instead, we got to talk to the people at the top, we got to talk to the people at the bottom. And Trimagasi is real quick to say- the people at the bottom don't want to hear from you because you're on top of them. And the people at the top don't want to hear from you because you're beneath them. And that's because Trimagasi had been there when there was a system. And I didn't understand the second film, I was like- oh, there's order... Because I thought the protagonist from the first film, that's what he created in his sacrifice, not realizing that the second one is a prequel, until Trimagasi appears. That's when I realized- oh, this is a prequel.
[00:28:41.770] - Jessie
And I'm like, that's why Trimagasi is so pessimistic in the second film because he's been here when there was a system, that in design, should work. But when you have enforcers that take that design to be what they want it to mean, both in implementation and in enforcement. And he's there also for the fascism and the anarchy and what it looks like after the entire thing is disrupted. And so I think if I would have watched two then one, I would have appreciated two more. But now I just have to make sense of it in my mind. So Rossana, you actually have a leg up because you've watched Platform 2. So now if you go home and watch the first one, you're going to feel real good about what happened in Platform 1.
[00:29:36.930] - Caullen
I don't know! Because I... Well, I guess I didn't...
[00:29:40.280] - David
Feeling good might be the wrong choice of words.
[00:29:41.540] - Caullen
I guess cause I don't know, but it isn't changing anything for me.
[00:29:44.410] - Jessie
It would make sense.
[00:29:45.820] - Caullen
Yeah, it might make more sense, for sure.
[00:29:47.290] - Jessie
And then the last thing I'll say, and I'm really trying to wrap my mind around this, so you got to bear with me.
[00:29:52.480] - David
For sure.
[00:29:53.400] - Jessie
So we're in this vertical experiment. It's an experiment, and people are opting into this experiment. The mind wonders, how do they learn about this experiment? So if there's a part three, I hope it tells us how the administration starts this place and advertises it in a way where people just walk in and be like- I want to be here. I'm going to spend six months, I want to quit smoking cigarettes and read a book. You know what I mean? So one, I'm really trying to understand how people end up here, voluntarily. Then the second piece is that people are put- two people on every floor from level one, because level zero doesn't have anyone. It's where the food is designed, put on a platter, all the way to the 333rd floor. And then intentionally, they plant a child at the bottom. Is the message that if we do right by the child, we have done what we are supposed to do? Is the message the food? Because the food is the thing throughout the whole film.
[00:30:55.160] - Caullen
Food resources, whatever.
[00:30:56.940] - Jessie
Yeah. Scarcity, survival, hunger, malnutrition, all of it. All of what we see people experience is through whether or not they got food. And so I'm still trying to grapple with the message. Or are we supposed to draw the message we want to draw from this film? But what hasn't left me is that we intentionally plant children at the bottom floor, meaning they're the last ones that are going to eat, but somehow they're well dressed, they're fed, they're showered, they're not malnourished.
[00:31:32.510] - Caullen
That's why I don't... It takes me out of it. That takes me out of it.
[00:31:36.630] - Jessie
So is the child the fantasy?
[00:31:38.340] - Caullen
Yeah. Maybe.
[00:31:40.250] - Jessie
I don't know.
[00:31:41.680] - Caullen
And that's the thing, too. If the first one is the second one, and they tried these rules and revolutions, this iteration didn't work. That's why homeboy is all pessimistic. But now- oh, the child's message to the administration... The administration put you in here, why are you still trying to appeal to your oppressors? So where does that experiment go?
[00:32:03.560] - Jessie
Or just what is the point of the children in this vertical experiment with people who are supposed to try to figure out a system that works for everybody? Because the idea is, how do we get the food to reach to the bottom? Period. How do we get folks to design something for themselves where they can all feed each other and not let greed win? So then what does the child have to do with that?
[00:32:28.120] - Rossana
I have been I'm thinking a lot about... I spend less time- when I see stuff like this I spend way less time trying to figure out what they were trying to tell me and just doing whatever I want with what I'm getting; because I am usually always applying it to what I'm living currently. I love that you started talking about the criticism of self-organizing, because the situation in which people are put is impossible.
[00:32:59.920] - Caullen
Impossible.
[00:33:01.600] - Rossana
There are levels. And having an assembly, for example, is virtually impossible because you can't get everybody together. It is impossible to get everybody together. So people are organizing in smaller groups as they have access to each other. But there is- it is impossible to have access to everybody. And the worse things get, the more people tend to our self-preservation. And the less likely it is that people are going to successfully be able to organize for the well-being of everybody. And I feel like this is where I'm trapped right now in city council.
[00:33:41.063] - Caullen
100%.
[00:33:41.573] - David
Crazy.
[00:33:41.630] - Rossana
So I was watching the film and thinking about how it applies to what we're going through in terms of the harder it gets to organize and fight for things, and the more challenging things are, the more people think about their self-interest, the hardest it is to ensure that everybody's participating in the conversation and that you're making decisions that benefit everybody.
[00:34:09.260] - Rossana
When I thought about the children, I was like, the children is always the tagline for everything. "We do it for the children."
[00:34:21.130] - Caullen
No child left behind.
[00:34:22.210] - Rossana
Everything that we do is for the children. Right now, the main concern of Republicans is that there are trans children playing in the sports of the sex that they believe that they shouldn't be playing. It's all about trans kids and how evil this is. So when I saw the children, I was like, this just feels like, oddly, placing the children in this event.
[00:34:52.050] - Caullen
I agree. I was like, it's lazy!
[00:34:54.700] - Rossana
Why are they bringing the children in?
[00:34:56.390] - David
Lazy might be a little rough, but...
[00:34:57.680] - Rossana
I don't know. I am appreciating this through what I am also seeing every day. The lens that I'm looking at things right now is just everything that is in my head.
[00:35:10.430] - Caullen
I agree with that and I don't have your lens.
[00:35:12.280] - Rossana
So the children there just felt like- Yeah, this is how you wash everything. This is how you sell any ideology that you want to sell. "It's for the children!"
[00:35:25.270] - Caullen
It's that lady from The Simpsons.
[00:35:27.140]
[audio clip from The Simpsons] Oh, won't somebody please think of the children?!
[00:35:32.240] - Rossana
"Think of the children. This is why we do it. And this is why you have to follow the rules, too." Even if the rules don't make any sense. Because at some point, there is the idea of the rules. But who created the rules? The rules were not created in collective for the benefit of everybody. The rules are just informed to people.
[00:35:50.170] - David
And enforced.
[00:35:50.800] - Rossana
And enforced.
[00:35:51.740] - Jessie
And in fact, it was created by one man. The anointed.
[00:35:52.850] - David
The master. No, the anointed follow the master. So it's like, it's dude and dude.
[00:35:57.670] - Rossana
But when you start watching the movie at the beginning, because the pretext is- We are doing this so that everybody can eat. I'm kinda with it. I'm like- Okay, this is a really bad situation. We're trying to make the best out of this really bad situation so that everybody can eat.
[00:36:15.680] - David
But then homie eats the food of the dead person. So I'm just giving context.
[00:36:19.390] - Rossana
And then food also gets thrown out. And I'm like, this makes absolutely no sense.
[00:36:23.970] - Caullen
But no, I get that. I had an issue originally like- Why you throw food out? Like, y'all, what the fuck? But his this thing was, and correct me if I'm wrong, but his thing was like- if people know someone dies, there's extra food, then it incentivizes folks to maybe kill someone to get extra food for the whole thing. And we don't trust folks enough to not do that. I think that's part of it, too.
[00:36:45.160] - Jessie
But not every person can eat the same portion of food. A young child needs a different type of nourishment than the OG that's been there for a year with no sunlight.
[00:36:55.980] - David
He's eating an entire pizza by himself, every time.
[00:36:57.580] - Caullen
I need 200 grams of protein daily. 200 grams. I need that. Timmy, you be good. You be good.
[00:37:06.390] - David
Timmy!
[00:37:07.230] - Caullen
I need 200 grams.
[00:37:08.830] - Rossana
But in the middle of all the greed and like... Because I hate the term "human nature". People want to justify everything about like- Oh, people will just get greedy or people will get... And I appreciated so much the tenderness and the humanity that comes through at different times in the movie. For example, when she starts taking care of the first guy.
[00:37:34.750] - David
They take care of each other a little bit.
[00:37:36.340] - Rossana
They take care of each other and it's in the middle of something so terrible that they are both enduring, there is this very human, concern for one another. Which then I see again in the fantasy world with the child. I appreciate that it's not just one... I mean, it was gory as hell, and it was terrible to watch, but it also had a lot of moments of human tenderness and care and concern for one another. So it's not like- Okay, this is just all bad.
[00:38:16.570] - David
I will say that to me, the children from the get-go, and I could definitely be wrong, but I thought it was the metaphorical positioning of the prison. Because when we start, we see homegirl, and homeboy being interviewed. They're like- What's your favorite food? This, that, the fifth, blahblahblah. Why do you want to be here? Because also in the first one, they're asked like- Oh, did I get in? No, you ain't in yet. So there's this type of-
[00:38:39.060] - Caullen
Maybe there's a lottery system. We don't know.
[00:38:40.660] - David
It's fucking wild, bro. It gave me Squid Game vibes, for real. But then at that point, we see the children, and they're sorta in a dance. They're going in a circle, and one's going down the slide at a time, there's harmony. Then as we see the understanding of who the anointed one what was, which is literally this batshit motherfucker who like- If you don't follow my rules, I have 30 motherfuckers on my deck.
[00:39:04.700] - Caullen
Squadded. Boy was squadded.
[00:39:06.850] - David
That's when we started then seeing the children then also start. So to me, it gave me the perspective of- children are the manifestation of what they see and what's around them. I always gravitated as, again, this is a spiritual realm, which I do agree. And that's maybe something that was shortcoming of this film in comparison to the first one, so much of the spirituality. But a lot of it, we've been removed from the spirituality of ourselves, of our cultures, of our whatever. I think there's levels to that. And so the children, though, are this emblem of what happens- because by the end, after they've killed the anointed one, after homegirl is trying to get to the bottom or whatever, or she finds the paint to pretend she's dead so that they can pretend she's dead.
[00:39:53.790] - Caullen
Yeah, that was weird.
[00:39:54.880] - David
That's when the children start fighting each other. And the boy that they put at the bottom happens to be the boy who won at the top of the peak. And so I think that was- because it's not just some random, Joe Schmo. It's like the-
[00:40:08.260] - Jessie
The kid who didn't follow the rules.
[00:40:09.720] - David
The kid wouldn't- and/or to me, I'm representing it as the id or the ego of the self and manifested in this boy who was doing it because there's no goal. He didn't win anything from being all the way at the top. It was just this self wanting to overcome and be on top. Then two people come in and grab him, and then they put him on the bottom. To me, that was always metaphorical, along with that final realm. Anything that goes after 333, I thought was a physical representation of death. Purgatory. I didn't see purgatory because purgatory to me is kinda- but it was people, those that are there.
[00:40:51.290] - Jessie
Like stuck after death?
[00:40:52.320] - David
No, I'm hearing you, for sure.
[00:40:53.830] - Caullen
Whatever your faith calls.
[00:40:54.780] - David
Because I don't believe in heaven and hell type shit.
[00:40:56.920] - Caullen
Assuming.
[00:40:57.590] - David
Purgatory to me is like, there's a missing link. Versus to me, everyone who was down there was almost like finding peace. Which is why at the end of the second one, she sees who we were assuming was her man the entire time that she's talking about.
[00:41:11.700] - Jessie
Who's the protagonist in the first one.
[00:41:13.280] - David
Who's the protagonist in the first one.
[00:41:15.420] - Caullen
*head exploding*
[00:41:15.420] - Rossana
I didn't see peace at the end.
[00:41:18.840] - David
I don't know about peace. Peace itself, no.
[00:41:21.560] - Jessie
I don't even find solitude at the end.
[00:41:23.710] - Rossana
I felt like- Oh, my God, is this how this ends?!
[00:41:26.560] - Jessie
In the characters, in their mannerisms. In the closure of the film, you felt like you've seen solitude in our protagonist?
[00:41:34.560] - David
Negative. I saw like- What are you doing here? I think it's literally what she says, "What are you doing here?" It's like the same situation brought both of these people to the same predicament in different ways. I think them aligning themselves at the end- and they both did the same thing; they sent the child up. Or they prioritized someone above their-
[00:41:53.510] - Jessie
And what's that message?
[00:41:54.160] - Caullen
And it didn't work!
[00:41:54.980] - David
I don't know. I don't know.
[00:41:56.260] - Caullen
Both times they didn't work!
[00:41:57.120] - Rossana
Do it for the children!
[00:41:58.360] - Jessie
But in both films-
[00:41:59.240] - David
I don't know if it was like, "think of the children." That was interesting. But I don't know.
[00:42:01.650] - Jessie
In both films, children go up on the platform.
[00:42:04.350] - David
And multiple times because if you watch through the credits like I do, there's multiple shots of people coming down with a child and the child going back up.
[00:42:15.060] - Caullen
Man, fuck the administration, bro. I don't know....
[00:42:18.280] - Jessie
Instead of going down, I would have tried to just-
[00:42:21.120] - Caullen
I would have went sideways, horizontal, son.
[00:42:22.150] - David
It was like the dude in the first one, he tried going up. Remember, he's on level six, as close as he could. They throw him the rope and then they shit in his face.
[00:42:27.930] - Caullen
That dude, god, man. It was like, Black man, what are you doing??
[00:42:28.780] - David
They shit in his face.
[00:42:29.550] - Caullen
I didn't like how buddy was telling what to do. He was like, Oh, Black man letting this white guy tell you what to do. I was like... I know you're trying to clap- you're trying to divide us, whatever. But honestly, I don't like to see that. Anyway, that is my gripe.
[00:42:43.660] - David
In comparison to the first one. But I don't know.
[00:42:45.310] - Rossana
I felt like she surrendered at the end. It's just a surrender moment of like- Okay, we're not fighting no more. This is where we...
[00:42:53.380] - Jessie
The revolution has made me exhausted.
[00:42:55.150] - Rossana
I'm just going to go and live here and drive myself around it. They look like zombies. I was like, this is-
[00:43:06.510] - Jessie
Because they're all dead people.
[00:43:07.540] - Rossana
I know. So it didn't feel like-
[00:43:10.150] - Caullen
*whispers* I see dead people. [audio clip of Kendrick Lamar "Not Like Us"]
[00:43:11.830] - Rossana
It didn't feel like hell, but it also didn't feel like peace. It felt like- I'm done. There's nothing else I can do. I surrender and....
[00:43:24.160] - Caullen
It felt like, back in the same spot, which maybe is the lesson. Like, you're going to do all this shit, and you're going to be back in the same spot.
[00:43:28.260] - Rossana
Damn, that is so terrible!
[00:43:29.600] - Caullen
I mean, I don't know, maybe type shit! Between one and two, it's like-
[00:43:32.770] - Jessie
Talking about something in perpetuity. It never ends.
[00:43:35.930] - Caullen
These things are necessary in a unique experiment, but also at the end of the day, you're still in this literal structure.
[00:43:41.940] - Jessie
The other thing that was very clear to me is, as long as there is a class system, it will be the people at the bottom that fight each other.
[00:43:50.700] - Caullen
Type shit!
[00:43:51.630] - David
100%.
[00:43:52.110]
[audio clip from La Plataforma] Listen up, motherfuckers. Either you do what this lady asks you to, or I'll shit on your food every single day. Then I'll spread the shit until there's not a single grain of rice clean. Do you hear me? You're going to eat shit every day. And now you, pieces of shit, tell the same thing to the ones below you. Sounds good? All right. It seems to be working. Obviously. But I didn't mean it this way. I wanted to convince them. They're convinced now. With crap, huh? Better than spontaneous solidarity. Let's see if we can convince the ones above us. No, the ones above won't listen. Why? Because I can't shit upwards, you see.
[00:44:44.930] - Jessie
It is what we experience today in the United States. It's what many countries experience as long as there is a class system and people above one another, the people at the bottom will always fight for crumbs.
[00:44:58.830] - Rossana
And as long as we continue to be isolated from one another and have no ability to come together to identify how we are separated by this system.
[00:45:10.370] - Jessie
Then we can't transform it.
[00:45:12.350] - David
Yeah. And the last thing I would even go as far as to include, because I think one of the beauties that I feel both films achieve is that while our protagonist goes in knowing nobody, knowing nothing, with these moments of tenderness and allowing each other to understand each other, regardless of the decisions why they were put there- it's even more interesting when you think of what everyone decides to bring in with them. I think the second one is more... Someone said a dildo, just like a-
[00:45:40.730] - Jessie
A pillow.
[00:45:41.800] - David
It was so many different things.
[00:45:43.480] - Caullen
Dildo, pillow.
[00:45:43.520]
[audio clip from La Plataforma 2] An object? Anything? Well... That pen. A razor. An ax. A dildo. A dagger. Okay, I was joking. A very beautiful painting.
[00:45:56.080] - David
Versus in the first one, the majority of people in the first one that I've seen, they either bring weapons. My man brought a book because he wanted to bring... And also, Don Quixote, of all books, is hilarious.
[00:46:07.570] - Jessie
My guy, Trimagasi, he brought in that knife to self-sharpen, man. He was smart.
[00:46:12.300] - David
Homeboy was in it. I don't know. To me, I think what it allowed is no matter how people get to a situation, if you have that opportunity to... Because remember, they got 30 days with each other. And even in the first one-
[00:46:27.070] - Jessie
Well, they got more than 30 days with one another.
[00:46:29.210] - Jessie
Because remember, every month they transfer. Until one of them die off.
[00:46:32.960] - David
Until one of them dies off.
[00:46:33.710] - Jessie
But they could be with each other as long as they survive.
[00:46:36.020] - David
And you see that in the second one because when homegirl is coming down, in the first one, when they're coming down and you're finally seeing after 200, there's one group where they're both in a swimming pool. These two naked dudes are just vibing.
[00:46:50.380] - Jessie
So who brought the swimming pool? One of them.
[00:46:51.550] - David
One of them must have picked it. Yeah.
[00:46:52.560] - Caullen
They were having a good time.
[00:46:54.120] - David
But to me, it's naming… It's only those small moments, but to me, it enforces... The more we have the opportunity to be with one another- because the other side is like- Oh, well, shared trauma. It's like- No, motherfucker, let's not sit there. It's like- We don't need shared trauma to be able to heal. It's like these motherfuckers from different places where they allow themselves an opportunity. Because one of the conversations I was seeing online was like, Well, it's the reason why homegirl with the arm and other homegirl made it is because they're both women, and this, that, the fifth. But it's like, homegirl assumed that homegirl was there for one month, and she'd been there for six! She got her hand cut off by the anointed one. It's just interesting understanding and coming to.
[00:47:34.740] - Jessie
You know the other piece that I find interesting is, this experiment is also forcing people to experience different levels of the class system. The people who are at the top who eventually go to the bottom, the people who are at the bottom that eventually go to the top- it doesn't change them. At any point in the system, when push comes to shove and they need to survive, they care about themselves. It doesn't matter if you're at the top, you had all of the food in the beginning, you go to the bottom, you go back to the top, you're just greedy. You just want all the food.
[00:48:10.260] - David
You're like, I survived.
[00:48:10.840] - Rossana
Because it's not constant. There is always the threat that you are going to be at the bottom. Being at the top, you know it's going to be temporary. There is not... "Well, now I'm set for life."
[00:48:27.050] - Jessie
I guess outside of the perspective that we are on the journey with the protagonist, is that, for example, Trimagasi is on every single level, he's not bought in at all, in any system.
[00:48:43.830] - David
He's not faded.
[00:48:44.790] - Jessie
No. It doesn't matter if he's at the top or the bottom. He's like- At the end of the day, I'm never going to care about the people at the bottom. And that's his deal. Where I think that the only people that we see transform- and it doesn't matter because they enter into the film with that perspective, is like- Well, we need a system that can ensure food gets all the way to the bottom, is that we watch people change levels.
[00:49:07.770] - Caullen
And they don't name because I want it because I'm there; because it just seems right. It seems good to me.
[00:49:11.940] - David
Yeah. I mean, the one thing I just want to close up was saying was like, and this is definitely taken from all the reviews at 3:00 AM. But it's interesting because both movies act as metaphors for different economic systems, which we've all highlighted. I think what's interesting is in these systems, the idea of "fair" food or what is fair food is pushed and pulled to the extreme. Because at one point, I agree with homey, he's a big dude. He should be eating- their dead, let him eat. Who goes to fuck? Or let it go down. Or in the first one, homegirl was purposely making plates, and she would tell him:
[00:49:48.800]
[audio clip from La Plataforma] Listen to me, please. I've left a couple of portions for you, so please eat yours only. If you may, please prepare two similar portions for the ones on the next level. What do you say? We come from level 88, we're barely alive. I understand, sir, but we're responsible for those who this month haven't been as lucky as we have. Listen to me, your rations contain the calories your body needs. Why don't you just go fuck yourself?! Don't listen to that bitch. Please, sir!
[00:50:16.820] - Caullen
Come on, you can't do that. You can't tell them what to do like that!
[00:50:20.300] - David
Depending on where it comes from, whether it's like what is written here in quotes, "a communist dictatorship," which I don't know if that's what I would call the second film. I do think, just again, we're thinking about organizing tactics, we're thinking about the use of violence against our own people and what. There was a quote, it was like- "I'm killing you so no one else has to", or some shit like that. I'm like-
[00:50:42.700] - Jessie
What?!
[00:50:43.080] - David
That sounds like state executions! You know what I'm saying? I'm killing you so you don't have to kill nobody else. And that enforcement clearly gets too thick. And then what happens is this messy revolution, instigated by our protagonist in the second film, then completely erodes it. And in that eroding in the first film, that's when my man comes in, where it's just everyone for themselves, which is the bottom barrel of capitalism.
[00:51:10.390] - Jessie
That's right.
[00:51:10.760] - David
And that's unfortunately where we are today with our oligarchs and our Trumpudo.
[00:51:19.290] - Caullen
In the experiment of different economic systems, as you say, and I think governmental systems, too, which are different things that are obviously entwined. No matter what we do, you're in a literal prison.
[00:51:30.380] - Jessie
Yeah.
[00:51:30.830] - Caullen
And we can't ignore that structure that we'll never going to get rid of. And that idea is the film itself.
[00:51:38.100] - Rossana
And the vast majority of people, overwhelming majority of people, are going to be at the bottom.
[00:51:45.350] - Caullen
Yeah, it's not equally stratified.
[00:51:47.930] - Rossana
They might go a little bit up, or a little bit down.
[00:51:51.630] - Caullen
Maybe.
[00:51:52.400] - Jessie
But also you live within a system in which the person that truly is creating the harm is nowhere to be seen.
[00:52:01.540] - Caullen
No where to be seen.
[00:52:01.810] - David
Non-existent.
[00:52:03.090] - Caullen
And when homeboy in the first film, talking to the Obviously guy, he was like- This isn't because of the conditions or some system, this isn't because of you! I was like- unnmm.....
[00:52:13.260]
[audio clip from La Plataforma] I want you to know I'll hold you responsible for my death. Not the people above, not the circumstances, not the administration, but you. Only you. At last, now you've been purged inside and out.
[00:52:35.030] - David
That's what they were taught. She's been doing the job-
[00:52:38.410] - Caullen
He said it in a way that he like, knows, but is also like- and also he went through serious physical, mental trauma. I get it, but also like- But, sir... But... It's me being like- *taps on mic* Excuse me. I don't want to hear that, even if he was saying all the things.
[00:52:51.740] - David
I love it. I love it. Well, as we start coming to a wrap, I'd love to let y'all an opportunity to give last words. Again, I appreciate that y'all took it as a homework assignment, I guess, at the very least. I'm sure Whiskey & Watching fans will be really excited to dive into all things because I think we've definitely touched on all aspects of the films. Again, there's so much to it, so much fantasy, so much specific class structures and specific issues that we can dive into. But I think it was just a film that I'm grateful that we engaged in for 2025, specifically as y'all talk about bringing in the moment. So I'm going around one last time, love to give y'all an opportunity to share any final thoughts or feels or any other connections in terms of how we move after this recording in the real-world prison. So either y'all got one and we could popcorn it to the other.
[00:53:38.650] - Jessie
I think as we're living under a Trump administration and we're watching all of these decisions impact, marginalize, and oppresse communities; watching the film, I think, really brought to life just how quickly a system can fail. But how one can be built. I think that while we watch the film and someone's like- Man, it doesn't no matter what you do, you're still going to be stuck in a shitty situation. I think that there are people in our community who are looking for that one protagonist just to give them a sense of hope, a sense of direction.
[00:54:13.780] - Jessie
And I think that unlike this vertical prison where you only get to talk up and down to a couple of people, we have unique opportunities in our communities to really bring folks together, to truly understand the systems that are impacting their daily lives. Because what was very clear in the film, is that people were impacted by a system, but didn't necessarily know who was the puppet master. In the moment that we're in now, we know who's the puppet master plus the company. And I think we got to call it out. We got to organize. And whether it's a struggle in perpetuity or not, whether this is something that at some point maybe we'll clock out of and be exhausted, we can create a movement and a system that at least the next generation can take on. So metaphorically, whether it was those children going up on the platform or whether it's the children in Chicago taking it on a decade from now.
[00:55:06.280] - David
I love that.
[00:55:08.490] - Rossana
I agree with everything that Jessie just said. And I think I live with the reflection of how important it is to continue to create space for democracy, for democratic movement and participation in order to be able to build the solidarity that we need to survive. The idea that there is somebody that created the law and that others are just going to have to put up with whatever that law is because it's the thing to do; it's this thing that will be better for everybody; I feel that right now. We're hearing it every day, and we are absolutely responsible for preventing that from happening. We are responsible for pushing as hard as we can and together to make sure that we have democracy and that we can build together the society that we deserve. And next time we need something that leaves us feeling very hopeful, David.
[00:56:19.010] - David
Heard. Wakanda Forever, I think, did that for us. I think we did okay. I'm dying. But Caullen, what about you? Any last words for the people?
[00:56:25.400] - Caullen
Our beautiful guest said all the things. Nothing. My head's still spinning. But no, they left us with great things to chew on. Free Palestine. Free Luigi.
[00:56:36.040] - David
I'm dying.
[00:56:36.700] - Caullen
Fuck 12. Fuck ICE. And love yours. All the good things.
[00:56:43.290] - David
This is super exciting. As always, peep out the information on the episode notes. But as always, from your homies in BrownTown, as always, stay Black, stay Brown, stay queer.
[00:56:51.560] - Caullen
Stay tuned, stay turnt.
[00:56:53.610] - David
We'll see you for the next one.
OUTRO
Music End Credits by Aitor Etxebarria from the film's soundtrack.