BrownTown talks all things DNC aftermath with US Palestinian Community Network (USPCN) organizers Nesreen Hasan and Nadiah Alyafia. The new friends breakdown DNC week from the formal mass March on DNC protests, autonomous disruptions, anti-war/genocide political education programming, to the convention spectacle itself and what it meant (or didn't mean) for Chicago on the national scale. Originally recorded September 7, 2024.
BrownTown talks all things DNC aftermath with US Palestinian Community Network (USPCN) organizers Nesreen Hasan and Nadiah Alyafia. The new friends breakdown DNC week from the formal mass March on DNC protests, autonomous disruptions, anti-war/genocide political education programming, to the convention spectacle itself and what it meant (or didn't mean) for Chicago on the national scale. Originally recorded September 7, 2024.
GUESTS
Nesreen Hasan is a Chicago-based Palestinian community organizer with USPCN who has been organizing for nearly 15 years. Nadiah Alyafai is a proud Yemeniyeh who also has been organizing with USPCN for 8 years, and advocating for her people ever since she was little.
Learn more about USPCN's work on their website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
Mentioned in or related to episode:
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CREDITS: Intro and outro soundbites from the March on DNC protests filmed by David and Caullen. Audio engineered by Kiera Battles. Episode photo by Jordan Esparza.
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BrownTown talks all things DNC aftermath with US Palestinian Community Network (USPCN) organizers Nesreen Hasan and Nadiah Alyafia. The new friends breakdown DNC week from the formal mass March on DNC protests, autonomous disruptions, anti-war/genocide political education programming, to the convention spectacle itself and what it meant (or didn't mean) for Chicago on the national scale. Originally recorded September 7, 2024.
INTRO
[00:00:49.840]
[Audio clip from March on DNC protests] No peace on stolen land! Justice is our demand! No peace on stolen land! We are here because it's time! Stop Israeli war crime!
BODY OF EPISODE
[00:01:20.450] - David
I'd like to welcome everyone to another installment of Bourbon 'n BrownTown. It's your boy David, coming to you from Harambe Studios in Chicago, Illinois. And summer is ending. There's sadness in my soul.
[00:01:32.030] - Caullen
Summer's in the heart, bruh.
[00:01:33.070] - David
Bruh, no. Let me tell you something. I walk out, and I know some people might not agree, but there's a wind, it goes on my spine. I'm like, puta madre, I gotta find a sweater.
[00:01:40.750] - Caullen
You're kinda a little bitch about the cold, though.
[00:01:41.490] - David
Well- we're trying to remove that word from our lexicon. Here we are. So that's what we've been feeling. But as always, I'm with my boy, Caullen, as you hear. C, how you doing today? Clearly, you ain't cold.
[00:01:52.760] - Caullen
I'm okay. I like the fall. I love the summer, too. Since I've been speeding it up this summer, the first time in a while, I'm like, I want to show these buns, son! I need to go to the beach. However, my fall wardrobe is popping. Got different color pastel hoodie. Got jackets wearing over type shit. I got the fresh Forces on.
[00:02:11.736] - David
Brag.
[00:02:12.060] - Caullen
I'm also excited for the fall. Other than the cold, how are you? How are you coming into the space in this moment? I feel like we are, to the point the literal season is changing, I think school is starting, work is starting with some folks. I think early September, things are a new type shit. It's a couple of weeks out from the DNC, we've had time to reflect. So how are you coming into this conversation?
[00:02:35.620] - David
Yeah, it was funny because I relistened to our episode with Bill, part one of this conversation, and I was like, I'm fucking excited! I was gassed or whatever. And I'm like, Bro, I'm a little tired. It's just funny, clearly, it speaks to what the last few weeks have been like. But definitely remaining hopeful. I think we've had an opportunity to be blessed with community members throughout the last few weeks. I went to Socialism for the first time. That shit was interesting. I didn't know what to expect, and maybe I was being pessimistic about it. But when I went, and it was cool, and everyone who I talked to was on the same page, and it was fruitful. It was always cool to see the brothers, AirGo, Respair Media doing their thing and other close members. Shout out to Rossana who was on two different panels. It was cool in that, that's where we find joy. That's where we find hope. I'm trying to just keep it pushing, keep it moving. I think that's why I'm like, Yo, I still got two weeks of summer left, bro. Why is it? Why am I wearing a sweater already? I got two weeks of summer.
[00:03:39.050] - Caullen
I told you, you're kinda a little bitch.
[00:03:41.280] - David
I hate this motherfucker.
[00:03:42.860] - Caullen
For some context, the Socialism Conference, in Chicago at McCormick Place. I'm not sure what year it was this year, but a lot of the themes were around Palestinian liberation. As far as some of the main areas, but also there's all kinds of discussions around-
[00:03:59.210] - David
The focus. That's where the focus was.
[00:04:00.530] - Caullen
All the things that are intersected with Palestine and with the world at this moment; with imperial powers globally and how we work to demolish and abolish them. But also how it works on a grassroots level to actually understand the differences between our ideologies. Because I think when telling the uninitiated folks who I know, Hey, I'm going to a Socialism conference. They're like, Oh, are you a socialist? I'm like, Well, I'm on the left. They're trying to recruit me. Anarchists want me, communists want me. I'm I'm a free agent right now.
[00:04:30.610] - David
I'm low key a tankie, but it's all good.
[00:04:33.550] - Caullen
But it was, I think when i explain it to folks, its the broader left or lefts, if you will, folks of different ideologies and practices and theories were there. Part of it, if you're a leftist you know leftists hate leftists. So part of it was like, Hey, why we're always infighting and stuff? That's why we haven't gotten free. So how do we actually talk about those things and critique each other in a healthy way, and towards a similar goal? So that was part of the fodder that I was thinking about going into the conference, and kinda got out of it as well. So I would encourage anyone if you consider yourself on the broader left, or you swiped right on- you're a lib, but you're like, hmm I feel like this shit's foul, and I feel like I want to actually change things, then Socialism Conference next year. July 3rd-6th. Fuck July 4th!
[00:05:18.540] - David
They are not paying us for this ad.
[00:05:20.680] - Caullen
If they want to.
[00:05:21.550] - David
Socialism, if you hear us, we out here.
[00:05:24.560] - Caullen
But that was after the DNC. And soI think the conversation with Bill, the part one was really interesting to think about the past a lot and how '68 looked, because I wasn't around back then. And so now we're sitting here with some new homies after the DNC and the March on the DNC, some of the larger big public gatherings against the DNC, and there's a lot of programming going on. I'm going to shout out to Dissenters, the anti-militarism youth organization that's nationwide now. They had a bunch of dope programming to counter the DNC, and talk about not only Palestinian liberation, but just how to fight against these forces in different ways. Stop Cop City was part of the conversation. Other policing and abolitionist organizings going against different movements across the nation. Jordan Esparza had a radio show during it with Dissenters; I was honored to be on very briefly and talk about Stop Cop City in Atlanta and then No Cop Academy.
[00:06:26.880] - Caullen
So I say all this to push back against the narrative that, I think we'll laugh about this room, that Palestine is somehow a single issue. It's every issue. And I think with what's been this past year with the genocide, what's been this past year with just the cartoonish nature of American politics that I feel like, I hope to everyone, is more and more clear every cycle we're in. But unfortunately, it's not. And all that being said, looking at the DNC as it's always been, this grand, circus show of the Democratic Party platform, where they nominate whoever they want to be President, Vice President. And Republicans do it, too, and they've done it for generations at this point.
[00:07:18.470] - Caullen
So kinda table set that's what this conference was. And cities bid on it because they want to bring in tourism and people to see the city and see it in a different light. I think there's a conversation there as far as what Chicago means, and on the national scale, what it means in terms of having an event like that on top of other events like Nascar and Lollapalooza and whatever; and who actually benefits from things like that. So I wanted to table set just big party conferences in American politics in general. Also wanted to name that the DNC platform removed abolishing the death penalty for the first time in a while. So we can talk about that. But normally speaking, they'll reveal and talk about what the platform is going to be as well. I wasn't in those conversations, of course, but that's normally what happens in some of these conventions.
[00:08:00.370] - Caullen
But all that being said, is there anything else you want to table set as far as this conversation with the DNC and/or our aligned Palestinian liberation series we've been doing the past several months here?
[00:08:14.490] - David
No, I just definitely encourage folks to peep episode 102 in this moment with Muhammad, which was a fantastic conversation. I didn't realize it was in December of 2023 when we recorded it. Most recent episode, episode 111, Jewish Anti-Zionism with Brant Rosen and Lesley Williams, which was awesome. It's not part of that, but I do think I'd encourage folks to engage with those episodes because I do think, again, we're only speaking more truth to that. But without further ado...
[00:08:44.810] - Caullen
Nesreen Hasan is a Chicago-based Palestinian community organizer with USPCN- United States Palestinian Community Network, who's been organizing for nearly 15 years.
[00:08:55.330] - David
And we also have Nadiah Alyafai. Nadiah is a proud Yemeniyeh who organizes with USPCN. She has been organizing for eight years, damn, and advocating for her people ever since she was little. How y'all doing?
[00:09:08.460] - Nadiah
Doing good. Excited to be here.
[00:09:11.420] - Nesreen
I'm happy to be here. It's beautiful outside.
[00:09:14.760] - David
Okay. So everyone loves fall.
[00:09:16.090]
*laughing*
[00:09:19.250] - David
Cool. We really appreciate being here. I think it was real cool being able to see y'all on the street during the Hell Week. Which is one of the reasons why y'all are here, to what a lot of Caullen said, just really think through, really have a meaningful and thoughtful conversation on what happened and how we move forward. Because clearly, this is like, unfortunately, we're still talking about this. So, I'm just curious- and we can go around and high-lows of the DNC just of the entire week. You don't have to go into too much context. But I'd be curious to hear because there was a lot of things going on all the time so I'd love to hear what was a high and low for each of y'all during that week.
[00:10:04.770] - Nesreen
You wanna go first?
[00:10:06.420] - Nadiah
Sure, I can go first.
[00:10:07.010] - David
Go ahead.
[00:10:07.740] - Nadiah
I gave this a little bit of thought because there's a lot of thoughts coming out of the DNC and the organizing process leading up to it. But I think one of the biggest things is, I met so many amazing people from different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different organizations, just fighting for similar goals that we're fighting for. Tens and thousands of people in one crowd just calling out the Democrats and saying, You can't step all over us anymore. It was amazing to see. Everyone had amazing personalities. It was so cool to meet people. I think one of the lows was my body was dead. I had to stay in rest for a week. I'm not going to even lie, I still have a bruise on my toe because somebody stepped on it. It's purple, and I probably need to get that checked out.
[00:11:12.020] - David
It be your own people sometimes.
[00:11:12.910] - Nadiah
Yeah, it be your own people, but it was worth it. It was definitely worth it.
[00:11:16.230] - Nesreen
I would say one of the highs was meeting a famous person named Crackhead Barney. Not that many people are familiar with her, but I've followed her for two years. She's an Instagram shock type person. I don't know if y'all saw her, she was wearing a blonde wig, bikini.
[00:11:32.600] - David
In white face?
[00:11:34.010] - Nadiah
Yeah!
[00:11:35.830] - Nesreen
She trolls people.
[00:11:37.420] - David
We have her on footage.
[00:11:38.900] - Nesreen
Yeah, she's a troll, and I love her. So I got to meet her.
[00:11:41.400] - David
Ohh, so we- I was like, who the fuck? What are you doing here?
[00:11:44.060] - Nesreen
She goes to Zionist rallies, Republican rallies, Democratic rallies. She's a lefty, but she purposely trolls.
[00:11:52.570] - David
She's in white face, bro. I'm surprised you didn't see her- in pink, blonde hair, big ass glasses, big lipstick.
[00:11:58.480] - Nesreen
Yeah, she's hilarious. And she calls herself a proud white woman just to troll people. And so she went up to the- there was neo-Nazis who tried to instigate at the march. And so she scared the crap out of them by trolling them, and that was beautiful to see. But to be on a more professional note, it was beautiful. Similar to what Nadiah said, seeing the unity of people from across the country come in, especially on Monday, but also centering Palestine. Usually Palestine, for all the years I've been going to marches, conventions, it's like part. Part of-
[00:12:34.810] - Caullen
It's like a footnote.
[00:12:35.190] - Nesreen
Yeah, a footnote. And yes, we do a clap, "free, free Palestine". But this year, and this time, it centered Palestine. It was just very, very beautiful. I would say a low is... I try not to let anything bring me down, but I would say a con is, again, like Nadiah said, our bodies are tired. And people wanting it to be perfect and just having a critique, not even giving us our roses, but critiquing, critiquing, critiquing. And people who weren't on the table. If you're going to critique, why didn't you come to the table?
[00:13:17.120] - Caullen
Sure. I do want to get to David and my pros and cons as well. But on the critique end, too, I think of that as far as our role in it. We communicated with the March On DNC, that the biggest coalition that march on the first day and the last day of the week, about filming and being part of the media team and stuff, which was really fruitful and cool. But leading into that, actually getting on the filming and talking to y'all, meeting you guys literally in the streets. We're always thinking about framing and reframing, especially in this moment, and even during election seasons in general, as leftist, as folks that believe in revolution, a side-eye towards electoralism to be nice. But it's like, this moment people are vulnerable and paying attention, so how do you use that?
[00:14:01.860] - Caullen
A lot of the fodder or the narratives around both of the DNC itself as far as, Oh, we have Kamala now, and how do we do this, and make this cute show of it. But also, even with the march and corporate media, and then also even independent media, too, comparing it to 1968, and I think there were some folks doing that in good faith, like we did in the past episode. Which I think is worth talking about, but folks are like, Oh, the police are going to be violent. It's going to be violent. It's going to be blown back in the streets. "If it bleeds, it leads" narrative and stuff too.
[00:14:29.030] - Caullen
Then that's one bucket, another bucket is, I think, because the coalition, the March On DNC coalition, was fighting the city to be in sight and sound of the United Center where the DNC was, and all these different legal fights and stuff. And having to prove to the city, Hey, a lot of people are going to come out, it's like, maybe part of that, it needs to be perfect, so we need to prove to them that we have the numbers, type of thing. It's like, this is for us. Maybe we don't get the numbers that we want; maybe we do, but ultimately, it's for us to be with our people, and hold that. So I didn't think of that until you said it, as far as it needs to be perfect. It's like, perfectionism is part of white supremacy, as we know. We don't want to go around the same thing, trying to prove to them, it's about us. But that is an interesting thing to think about.
[00:15:11.360] - Caullen
I feel like because we were, at least myself, so like, Alright, just leading up to it- I and we want to do a lot preparing. We want to make sure we got editors on deck, and film this, film that. And we're just like, I need to show up with the camera. We didn't have time. But part of it was like, I want to be prepared, but also you just have to trust in the people you're organizing with and-
[00:15:32.020] - David
Trust the process.
[00:15:32.020] - Caullen
Meeting on that day to figure it out, and a lot of that came to fruition. I had so much fun being out there just filming y'all, and filming other people and stuff, chanting when I could. It was really cool. It's like, when I think about us as movement media makers, literally in the streets, there's a difference in literally how we move, what we're wearing, then also what we have access to.
[00:15:54.400] - David
How we operate.
[00:15:55.430] - Caullen
Yeah, like the second parade, the second march, there was the banner of everyone walking. There was y'all speaking to other people. There was us filming, and there was marshals. Then there was the other press, and I was like, Yeah, y'all aren't here! Y'all aren't part of the team. But it meant something. I don't know, I was just thinking about it.
[00:16:10.110] - David
That's clearly Caullen's high.
[00:16:11.260] - Caullen
That is a pro. Yeah, I guess now I'm answering the question.
[00:16:14.040] - David
Yeah. So what was your low?
[00:16:15.390] - Caullen
The low was honestly probably releasing the need for perfectionism and stuff. I think, like I said, I came into wanting to make sure we communicated with other people who had cameras, know who was where.
[00:16:30.130] - David
And we did.
[00:16:30.380] - Caullen
And we did. Yeah.
[00:16:31.310] - David
Shout out, Greg. Shout out, Austin.
[00:16:32.460] - Caullen
I feel like, in my mind, it had to be perfect. I had to have everyone there. And I got there and I didn't have the lens I wanted. I was like, Oh no! I'm just like-
[00:16:39.000] - David
Caullen didn't get the call sheet out.
[00:16:40.040] - Caullen
Exactly. I'm treating it as a production, which partially is good, partially is like, this is not what it is, you needn't do it. We weren't yelling like y'all were, so my body was okay, but at the end, I was like, I'm tired, I haven't done this in a while. I think the low was just maybe that. And honestly, seeing folks on the socials that I thought had more rigid, true, and human critiques of the DNC and the Democratic Party and how it's moved, really always, but especially what's so obvious to us now with the genocide. Then using that as armor as far as, Hey, say this didn't happen, which it is, all these other things, how policy, how they don't actually care about us. Folks might talk about codifying Roe v Wade, they could have done that several times in the past several decades. All these false narratives that we can use something as obvious as a genocide, as obvious as 76 years of occupation to talk about everything. And seeing folks that I know- some folks had some nuance, interesting conversations around inside-outside DNC, and some folks did not. And I was like, Oh, you're proud of... Oh, girl...
[00:17:58.160] - David
Like, no!
[00:17:59.810]
[audio clip from Lord of the Rings] You were the chosen one!
[00:18:01.030] - Caullen
So that was interesting for me. But I'm talking too much. What about you, David? Pros, cons of the week?
[00:18:07.540] - David
Yeah, no.
[00:18:07.730] - Caullen
You named it Hell Week, both on the planning sheet for this as well as just now.
[00:18:11.890] - David
I'm pretty sure I saw that somewhere, and I like the idea because the idea, to me, was DNC is going to come in here and think they own the city. None of these motherfuckers are from here. They're out here disrupting traffic. They're out here making it hard for us to park. And they think they can just do that. So to me, it was like, make it hell for them. You know what I'm saying? Not necessarily like, hell for us. If that's a clarifying detail.
[00:18:34.300] - Caullen
It clarifies a lot.
[00:18:35.010] - David
Yeah. Hell for them, not for us. But just the pro to me, I think what I really appreciated was seeing the amount of movement from small disruptions to specific actions to massive amounts of community coming together and occupying streets and streets and streets of Chicago. That was just fucking awesome. It was a high to see and be a part of in different ways.
[00:19:04.380] - David
So there's- day 3, which was, I guess, not a DNC march, but people were there.
[00:19:11.680] - Caullen
Not a march on DNC.
[00:19:12.310] - David
Yeah, not a march on DNC. On Wednesday they had drummer boys. Bro- I was like, I'm filming there by myself that day, and I'm getting all this footage. I'm like, Man, these drummers are fucking… And they kinda let in- it was a different type of vibe than Monday. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, I fucked with it. Then I had an opportunity to do my own little Drummer Boy at one of of the disruptions that we did as well as part of that. It was very fulfilling in all aspects of how I wanted to organize, how I wanted to show up, and who I wanted to be participating with.
[00:19:39.100] - David
I think a low... A low is really… We alluded to some of this in part one in terms of how much money the police got, in terms of just adding more police and out-of-state police. It's crazy because we got housing for 500 police officers who show up out of nowhere- that's interesting. But not housing for other people. That was the low and just being... I drive from the... I'm driving all over the city and just witnessing the over the top, militarization of these motherfuckers. I personally strategic my life that I didn't have to be anywhere near any of the checkpoints. We mapped these out, we had them up. And that's how I had to move in order so I didn't... I was like, I'm not even fucking going to the South Loop- south of the South Loop. UC is like- we just moved differently. We had to move differently. So that's definitely a low. That's definitely a low. Did you have a response to that?
[00:20:30.800] - Caullen
Yeah, I'm just thinking about how the way that the city moved. Not that these were surprises by me for large events, especially something like this that's 1) national, international, arguably. But also knowing the resistance that folks would bring about. And I think the March on DNC, the formal coalition was very much like, This is a family-friendly march. This is whatever it is. And it sucks that we have to say all that. It's a peaceful march, we have to say that. People are like, It's going to be violent. Like, Talk to the police, why are you talking to me? Larry Snelling is at CPD. We weren't the ones beating ourselves up in '68 or since then. So the framing of that conversation is always so interesting with like "the protestors are going to get violent. The protestors are going to do XYZ". Like, I don't have riot gear and a fucking baton. So it's always just- it's laughable, but it's scary at the same time. I think we want to have this episode, too, because leading up to it, there's so much fear mongering as far as how violent the police could and would get. And we obviously know that's possible.
[00:21:25.120] - David
We've seen it.
[00:21:26.110] - Caullen
But also, I think when there's an expectation, sometimes that isn't always the case. So yeah, just now sitting back, looking back, obviously there were arrests, police did get violent, but it wasn't to the extent that, at least I was expecting could happen. I don't know. I'm curious what are your guys' thoughts on that? But David, when you mentioned that about the way the city moves and getting around and stuff, and the money that's spent and that's given to the police who aren't even-
[00:21:52.390] - David
Spent.
[00:21:53.040] - Caullen
The jurisdiction isn't even in Chicago. There's that, and there's also the $814,000 that City Hall spent making a fence around the DNC and pushing out the houseless folks and claiming it's for safety. Again, we see this in any big event in a big city. We saw all this in Atlanta, in the Olympics in '94 or something. We talked about this with- in previous episodes, but there's always money spent to push out houseless folks and to claim for protection.
[00:22:21.940] - David
Criminalize.
[00:22:21.980] - Caullen
The solution for homelessness is homes. And it's not even building new homes, the homes exist right now. And so this idea of spending this money on things we know how to solve them is frustrating, to say the least.
[00:22:40.120] - David
It's frustrating at this point. Definitely at this point. But I would like to turn it to our guests in hearing, clearly mentioned- Caullen mentioned we literally met y'all on the streets. I'd love for some of our listeners to hear what brought you to those streets? What brought you to the March on DNC that week?
[00:23:01.080] - Nadiah
Yeah. So, I've been organizing with the United States Palestinian Community Network for a while now. I want to say since 2020, maybe? So whatever they tell me to do, I do. Organize, was in the planning meetings with USPCN being like, Okay, this is what we got to do to make this march a successful march. And a lot of that planning was bringing our people, our own people. It was a lot of work going into door knocking, flyering. Just in our own neighborhoods being like, Hey, this march is happening, it's going to be big. We know you care about Palestine, come out in the streets with us.
[00:23:46.960] - Nadiah
And then also, you guys mentioned pushing that point where we are creating this march to be family-friendly and safe. I'm born and raised in Chicago. My family is from Yemen. My dad immigrated from Yemen, my mom was born in New York, so there was also that cultural clash. If you ask any Arab, any Palestinian, anyone from the Middle East, every day at home, you come home from school and Al Jazeera is playing. Like, your dad's laying on the couch, he's vibing; a cup of coffee, tea in his hand, and you see our people dying.
[00:24:29.140] - Nadiah
And ever since I was little, I always wanted to- everyone's going to say whatever, always wanted to help people. I joined an organization- well, I was forced to by my mom, she signed me up, called the Arab American Action Network. Shout out to that, AAAN. Was in their youth organizing program, loved it. Became a youth leader, and now I work there. I'm teaching youth 14 to 18, political education, organizing, training. I was always involved in organizing, showing up to protests, it was like a call for me.
[00:25:06.780] - Nadiah
So I joined USPCN. Palestine and Yemen are hand in hand, we've seen it in the news, especially now. I'm always out in the streets and worked my way up to be one of the lead organizers. Because of the work that I've been doing at such a young age, and not to brag or anything, but it's true, put my heart and soul into it. Been in the streets since I was a little girl. And yeah, that's how it led me into the organizing work, and I was kinda thrown into it in the DNC. USPCN, obviously, was one of the lead organizations. Arab American Action Network was also one of the organizations, and that 200 organization in the Coalition to March on DNC. So it was like, Okay, you're one of the lead people, kinda take that leadership role as well. So it kinda naturally came my way.
[00:26:08.170] - Caullen
It was naturally worked for.
[00:26:10.070] - David
The revolution is your calling.
[00:26:11.650] - Nadiah
Yeah.
[00:26:12.480] - David
I love that shit. Thank you, thank you. What about you?
[00:26:15.250] - Nesreen
Nadiah should always brag, she's amazing.
[00:26:17.050] - David
You gotta give flowers.
[00:26:19.000] - Nesreen
Yes. I'm born and raised Palestinian. I am the daughter... Well, all four of my grandparents, on my maternal side and paternal side, are Nakba survivors. So they survived 1948. Never got to return to their homeland. And so, you're always reminded of their struggle. My father's father, my paternal grandfather, he came here in the early '70s, and he founded the Arab Community Center, which, in 1995, became the Arab American Action Network. He was a community organizer with many of the alders in the community. Him and other Arab Americans, they mobilized for Jesse Jackson's presidential campaign. They mobilized for Harold Washington, the first Black mayor, because he put Palestine in his policies. So he went door-knocking.
[00:27:21.180] - Caullen
Harold Washington did?
[00:27:20.930] - Nesreen
Yeah. Huh?
[00:27:21.980] - Caullen
Harold Washington did?
[00:27:23.380] - Nesreen
Yes! And he actually employed Palestinians in his administration. My grandfather passed away in 2017, but if you ask him, he goes, "Someone killed him", that's my grandpa. I'm like, No, he passed away of natural causes.
[00:27:35.670] - Caullen
Ohh, I was like, Wait, what? I thought your grandpa said he was killed by someone else, I was like, damn,.
[00:27:40.070] - Nesreen
Nooo, he was gone away too soon.
[00:27:44.110] - Caullen
Rest in power.
[00:27:44.860] - Nesreen
But it's in my- not in my blood, but I come from a family of organizers. I was a teenager during 9/11. That really shaped me as well. The Iraq War really shaped me. For the Iraq war, it was really intense because I had classmates- looking back at it, they were working class poor kids, but I remember them- I remember a classmate apologizing to me for enlisting in the army because they had to do it.
[00:28:13.280] - Caullen
Wow.
[00:28:14.840] - Nesreen
Yeah. And Iraq, even though I'm Palestinian, and even though we talked about Palestine, and even though my dad would watch growing up in the news, I really feel like Iraq really shaped me and awakened me. And then later on in life, I did labor organizing. And then Rasmea Odeh, who's the former Associate Director of the AAAN, comes up to me- she's a dear family friend, at my grandmother's funeral. And she goes, Why don't you organize with the Arab American Action Network? You know your grandfather used to organize in there, your aunts and uncles. And I was like, okay, sure. And I actually did what Nadiah did, I was a lead youth organizer. I worked with the youth, it was a transformative experience. I got to work with Arab, Black, Latino youth and have them sit in the same room and do activities together and connecting our struggles.
[00:29:08.530] - Nesreen
And then eventually, USPCN, because I wanted to solely focus on Palestine. And then a big thing happened in USPCN that made me stay in USPCN. Rasmea Odeh, our Associate Director, was visited by the FBI in 2013. They-
[00:29:28.980] - David
"Visited".
[00:29:29.690] - Nesreen
Yeah. Well, actually, she was arrested- it's a big thing. They tried to get her on some trumped immigration charges, but we know why they targeted her, because she was vocal for Palestine. And so I was also with Muhammad and with others, the lead organizers for her campaign. So that was USPCN's main main focus. And then we went back and forth in Detroit because they decided to charge her in Detroit, because that's where she filled out her immigration application, to keep her away from the community. And so I helped mobilize with that. Eventually, she took a plea deal where she got deported- and this is under the Trump era. This is when Bannon was in and all those people, we knew that even... Like, automatically, they'll be brutal to her, so she took the plea deal. Got deported. And then I stepped down from Arab American Action Network, I found a new job, but I'm board member at Arab American Action Network, and I'm still a loyal USPCN member.
[00:30:32.270] - David
Yooo... I'm definitely curious to hear- we've been talking about the DNC. Curious to hear what kind of things y'all plan for? I know you spoke to it a little bit, Nadiah. But I think one of the things we do at B'nB, is we really like to dissect moments for what they are, and the decisions that we made. I appreciate, Nesreen, you naming that we're always worried about things being perfect. Like, my banner drop didn't look great. We weren't able to stop this street, we got stopped here or whatever. I don't know.
[00:31:08.350] - Caullen
My whip pan whipped to the wrong person.
[00:31:09.250] - David
You know what I'm saying? I'm just curious to hear more of some of that planning that took place on your side, and whatever y'all can name for the coalition, and how that came to pass.
[00:31:21.560] - Nadiah
This was even before October 7th, where this coalition was made. Once we knew that the DNC was happening in Chicago, we were like, Yeah, we gotta do this shit. It was, again, 200 organizations from different backgrounds. You had: LGBTQI+ rights, women's rights, workers rights, immigrants rights, Palestinian and Arab rights- all these people coming together with different movements and different organizations just to say, the Democrats are coming here and they've been walking all over working in oppressed people for years. And then obviously, October 7th happened and we shifted the focus from, yeah, all of these movements correlate with what's happening in Gaza and what's happening in Palestine, so we'll center the voice of Palestine and our demands to end all US aid to Israel as well as for a ceasefire and go on from there.
[00:32:27.430] - Nadiah
With our- going back to all these other movements within the coalition, we put that on the table being like, Hey, let's center this. And everyone was down for it. Again, all these movements from different backgrounds, different abilities, coming together, saying that we need to center Gaza, and we need to center Palestine at this thing. It was work way before October 7th that led us to be on the front lines. And USPCN having that main voice and center image of the March on DNC, and it's because we've been there even before October 7th.
[00:33:13.040] - Caullen
It's almost like it didn't start October 7th?
[00:33:14.880] - Nadiah
It didn't. It didn't. Exactly.
[00:33:17.320] - David
Go ahead, what were you going to add?
[00:33:17.320] - Nesreen
I also want to point out that there are people online who are like, why are you only protesting the DNC? Folks don't know-
[00:33:26.650] - Caullen
Oh my god, I'm fucking sick of that.
[00:33:26.740] - Nesreen
We protested the RNC, because we also think the Republicans are shit.
[00:33:32.300] - Caullen
They're not good faith questions. "What about Trump?" He's not doing the genocide right now.
[00:33:36.330] - Nadiah
Exactly.
[00:33:37.660] - Caullen
He's not in power, like, shut the fuck up.
[00:33:38.670] - Nesreen
Yes. What you just pointed- no, what you pointed out. Right now, he's not carrying out the genocide, it's the Biden and Harris administration. But guess what? We still mobilized for it to call them out. But then you hear the critics, the liberals, say... I don't mean to sound like Rush Limbaugh *laughing*
[00:33:56.790]
[audio clip of Rush Limbaugh] The liberals!
[00:33:59.190] - Nesreen
"The liberals!" Sorry.
[00:34:01.040] - David
But for reals though.
[00:34:02.050] - Nesreen
But the liberals were saying, But you had more numbers at the DNC. Yes, because it's the Democrats carrying it out. If it was Trump or the Republicans carrying this out, we would have more numbers at the RNC. So that's something that I want to quash right now.
[00:34:18.250] - Caullen
It's bad faith. It's not a good argument. I'm just so sick of hearing that. It actually reminds me, and I've heard- long story short, our homie, Morgan Elise Johnson of the Triibe was on a panel of older Black activists and stuff, including Al Sharpton, has a show with MSNBC and whatever. Talking about voting and young people, and it was, for me, was very cringy to watch. But they had the same kind of questions, like, why aren't people... They talked about the encampments. They're like, Oh,- Al Sharpton was like, Well, how much was this tent? He's like, A college student couldn't answer me. And like, I know how much tents cost, I've organized for years. And it's like, That's so irrelevant.
[00:34:53.600] - David
What the fuck are you talking about?
[00:34:54.410] - Caullen
But this idea of, Why aren't you guys protesting Trump? And it's like, it sounds like when Trump was still talking shit about Hillary when he was in office, and you're like, Hillary's not in power, what's going on? It's the same conversation. And then thinking about just why not the RNC, or why not this, why not that? It's like, 1) we are a protesting the RNC. And 2) they're not in power. And it reminds me of folks who are like, oh, you always nag about the police and police violence, what about Black on Black crime? So o1) it's a racist, pathological myth. But 2) people have marches all the time on intracommunal violence. So people are doing that intracommunal violence work. And also we're not paying for it. It's just a bad question. And it shows that you actually don't care or aren't tapped in any way. Like, If you care about this, then where are you? That's just my rant. It just really bothers me because it's just so lazy.
[00:35:48.530] - Nesreen
It is.
[00:35:49.080] - Nadiah
Yeah.
[00:35:49.080] - Caullen
If you have a good faith critique, and we can get in the weeds, I'm like, let's do it. But it's just lazy. It's like, Say what you want to say, be honest with yourself and me because you're not doing that. And stop wasting my fucking time.
[00:35:59.690] - David
Y'all probably might have heard it- yeah, I was going to say, y'all probably heard it 10 times fold in what we've engaged with. I am curious, looking at it, the way I titled it, this portion was like, "What they say happened versus what really happened". And I named this specifically because DNC Week is over, whatever, and one of the things that Brandon Johnson goes about saying is he's really proud about the "constitutional policing" that he saw. He said, "If '68 was the year of police brutality, 2024 was constitutional policing." Let's just sit with that. Any thoughts, any feels on constitutional policing?
[00:36:39.940] - Nadiah
Man, can I start off with Fuck 12?
[00:36:41.650] - David
You're more than welcome to. But, go ahead.
[00:36:45.270] - Nadiah
Yeah, it was disgusting because-
[00:36:51.190] - David
Like, I voted for this man. You know what I'm saying?
[00:36:54.340] - Nadiah
Leading up to the point of the DNC, the police were giving us hell. Absolute hell. Going into Hell Week. Or what did we call it?
[00:37:05.750] - David
Yeah, Hell Week.
[00:37:06.040] - Nadiah
Hell Week. Yeahyeah. Every fight that we had to fight was because of the police. The fight for the permit, the police. The fight to get sight and sound of the United Center, the police were stopping us. And we had to... One of the big fights was the sound system, getting a stage and a sound system. And fighting for literal porta-potties for our people, and they only gave us seven. But it was a long fight that we had to do. Every step of the way the police would make it a hellhole for us so that our people were struggling. Or that the organizers were giving- giving the organizers a slap on the face, being like, Oh, you're fighting for this? Well, we're going to do that. So constitutional policing, we literally had to fight for our constitutional rights to march peacefully on the DNC. It was... Yeah. No... No..
[00:38:21.580] - David
I hear it. Nesreen, anything to add?
[00:38:26.230] - Nesreen
I also want to touch on Thursday night. They gave us a lot of hell. We couldn't move. They kept stalling.
[00:38:31.910] - David
Because it was after eight o'clock?
[00:38:33.340] - Nesreen
Yeah, and they kept stalling.
[00:38:34.470] - David
For listeners, can you elaborate on what that went like?
[00:38:37.190] - Nesreen
Yeah. So, it was the last night of the DNC. Harris is about to give her speech, and I guess they even got more cops out there. And so we were trying to march. We were stalled for a good 10 minutes in the same spot, and they would not move. But our people kept shouting, moving, and then more people started to crowd in. I would say that's a win on our part. We were being stubborn. We're like, Okay, if you're going to be stubborn, we're going to be stubborn, too. And so I think they felt intimidated, and then they moved eventually. But I remember that night in particular. Like, you've been giving us shit all this time, that's one thing Mayor Johnson left out. When the police were giving us shit, they were taunting people. Excuse me- can I swear? Okay, awesome! My grandparents, neither of my parents will listen to the podcast.
[00:39:31.220] - David
I'm fucking dead. No, they should! They should!
[00:39:33.300] - Nesreen
No, they should!
[00:39:34.260] - David
They should get into that new media.
[00:39:35.750] - Nesreen
But go, *bleep*. But no, they were giving us shit along the way. They were giving our marshals shit. Actually, some of them were being violent towards our marshals who were on the frontline protecting community members. So they just were having fun shitting on us. But I think Thursday night was a tipping point for us because it was like, you could just lay off us. You could just really, really- it's the last freaking night, lay off us. And so we were stubborn because they were stubborn, and eventually they moved. And it was funny, they thought people would leave, more people were coming in and crawling in and being louder and louder.
[00:40:10.350] - David
Any final thoughts on Brandon Johnson's constitutional policing?
[00:40:14.630] - Caullen
I mean, there's a larger conversation around Brandon in this moment and others, that's really another episode, really. But I think of this idea, more so on "constitutional policing", and this idea that if the police or anyone acts "legally" or "by the book", that that's good. Because we know-
[00:40:33.990] - David
It's a checkmark.
[00:40:34.160] - Caullen
Laws are-
[00:40:37.540] - David
Fugazy.
[00:40:37.570] - Caullen
So that was harmful or fugazy we made them up for there to be a sense of social control, etc etc etc. So this idea that 1) the Constitution is a good document we should live by, and when this was based upon, which slavery is legal and the things. We can go through things about the Constitution, it's not great. But also this idea that policing in all that's inherently violent, reactive, and really ineffective way of how it structurally operates. That when it operates, I guess, "legally" or "by the book", that is still bad. The idea of that is good, so we're not going to be more egregious and do things that are technically legal, it's laughable to me. But I think I wanted to send that home to listeners as far as what is put on paper, what is "legal", what is constitutional- these things are still inherently violent in documents that live out.
[00:41:27.990] - Caullen
Shout out to NLG and the folks to know these systems of legality and everything that can use those rules and really use them to the benefit of movement. It's nice having folks in those positions that can do things. I think that brings up a point of tactics in organizing, which is obviously a huge conversation. But I think around the pushback of the DNC as far as the March on DNC, the formal march, other protests that were happening, the Dissenters counter programming, more autonomous actions that weren't led by organizations, disrupting fundraisers and things happening. David and I may or may not have been involved in some. But there are other things happening other than the main march where we met y'all at.
[00:42:11.640] - Caullen
And so, I'm curious if there's any fodder in your guys' years and years of experience of organizing in different ways, and similar ways, between each other, what comes to mind as far as tactics of organizing towards a similar goal? Assuming that there's a similar goal. Whether that's organizations or individuals or people you know or don't know? Because I think that sometimes that is a fracture of movement as far as critiquing other folks' strategies. Yeah, I'll stop there. Let me hear your thoughts on that.
[00:42:44.720] - Nesreen
Yeah. Should I start?
[00:42:45.750] - Nadiah
Yeah.
[00:42:47.280] - Nesreen
Well, I think at our org we welcome diverse tactics. You can't get anywhere with just one single tactic. Shout out to the folks that woke up in the morning to wake up Kamala outside of her hotel. Shout out people interrupting Walz. Those are very important tactics. I think that, us, when we did the March on the DNC, we respected what the community's call was. And we had a lot of family saying, Can I bring my kid to this, I want to participate in this? A lot of family saying, I want to bring my children into this, but I am of X, Y and Z status, I am afraid I have this on my record. So of course, we have to respect it. And that's why the March on the DNC, we released a statement on St Paul Principles. It's a list of principles that, even if we're from diverse political backgrounds on the left, and even though we do believe in a diversity of tactics, we respect the tactic of a particular rally or a particular action, and you could do whatever you want to do. So instilling the St Paul Principles is very, very important.
[00:43:59.300] - Nesreen
And that's why we announced it before the March on the DNC. Again, we respect everyone's tactics. In our organization, we were the ones that led the highway shutdowns. We were the ones that called out Dick Durbin and got dragged outside the function in our nice attire. Or called out Jan Schakowsky. And we know the critiques of it being family-friendly, but we adhered those calls for our community.
[00:44:27.940] - Caullen
Do you mind sharing some of the critiques of family-friendly?
[00:44:30.880] - Nesreen
So the critique is like, We should have escalated. Okay, do what you got to do, but don't drag family into it. You know what I mean? There's a reason why we had marshals there. The marshals were to protect the community, not work with the cops, which is completely untrue. Our marshals even got hurt by the cops and were harassed by the cops themselves. So the marshals were the barrier between CPD. And like Nadiah said, the cops gave us shit as well.
[00:45:04.401] - Caullen
Shocker.
[00:45:04.680] - Nesreen
Yes. So this insinuation that there's some people that saying that the marshals are useless or they were worth nothing. I've had community members saying, a marshal protected them. I saw a marshal get pushed by a cop. I saw a marshal accidentally being- or no, forcibly being pushed onto a cop, and the cop not threatening the person who pushed them, but threatening to arrest the marshal who had nothing to do with whatever action.
[00:45:35.150] - Nesreen
But again, diversity of tactics is so important. Again, we're not against people escalating. But I think an important thing, too, when we escalate, we always identify people. For example, the shutdown in November, Lakeshore Drive, if you remember, we actually identified people who were willing to get arrested. We identified those people, those people led the way because we didn't want to harm marginalized members of our community who did not consent.
[00:46:07.660] - David
Like, I didn't sign up for this shit. That's on facts.
[00:46:09.610] - Nesreen
That's completely unfair. Again, we have people in our community that are undocumented. We have people in our community that have records. We have Black allies who are like, Hey, I got- my whole life I've been fucked over by the cops, I kinda want to step away from this. Valid. Those are all valid concerns. That's why you have to identify who is willing to be arrestable. So that day, it was a very successful action. I think I'm going to say, Muhammad got his ass whooped by the cops.
[00:46:39.600]
[audio clip from episode 102 with Muhammad Sankari] First of all, CPD beat the shit out of a lot of people: elderly women, people with strollers, all this stuff. It's CPD, I don't have to tell you all that they do this shit.
[00:46:48.537] - Caullen
He actually mentioned it on the episode.
[00:46:49.410] - Nesreen
Yeah, he got his ass whooped by the cops, but no one got arrested, and we managed to have thousands of thousands of people shut down Lakeshore Drive. That was an escalation, folks.
[00:47:02.810] - Caullen
An intentional.
[00:47:04.110] - Nesreen
An intentional escalation. And we identified the people who were willing to be arrested, and we didn't have people arrested without their consent. Lakeshore Drive, again, we shut it down by Durbin's house. I got, personally, beat up by a cop because I wanted to know why my friend was being arrested, and he was complying. And I had a cop punch me in the chest out of nowhere. And I was like, What the hell? And he goes- he bust out his baton, and he's like, "I will crack your head open". So I knew that, but I can't be surprised because I was one of the people that was part of the escalation on Lakeshore Drive.
[00:47:40.960] - Nesreen
So these are planned. And we have a strong principle and belief, we cannot endanger community members who are marginalized, who didn't give us consent to harm them. Are there going to be days where we have everything planned out and people will get arrested and that wasn't in the playbook absolutely, that could happen. But the goal is to plan it so you could do your best possible to avoid that.
[00:48:06.930] - Nadiah
The marshals were put in place because we believe that our community keeps us safe. The police would never, ever keep our people safe. So we put members of our community to make sure that- that are trained in de-escalation tactics. We had a USPCNer who focused on just training marshals, and that was their role; leading up to the DNC is to making sure that if the cops were to do this, if the cops were to do that. We weren't expecting violence. We catered this as a safe march, safe mass mobilization. But you can never rely on the cops. And we know that the cops' tactics and the polices' tactics is systemic and rooted in systemic violence. So yeah, our community keeps us safe, and a lot of people were upset with that, which is interesting... But what can you say to folks?
[00:49:12.320] - Nadiah
But I also think, the fact that USPCN was one of the first organizations after October 7th to do a sit-in at Jan Schakowsky's office. Jan Schakowsky labels herself as one of the most progressive representatives- but she is progressive on everything else except for Palestine. And we were like, How can you be progressive if you are not progressive on Palestine? So we went to go sit-in her office, and folks got arrested, were detained. And we had to wait outside of her office and outside of the police station until our folks were released. So I think there's certain tactics for certain marches, and you just have to be strategic and plan, and escalate when escalations are needed.
[00:50:06.620] - David
Yeah. I love that y'all have centered all of that, because I do think during that week, I think there were certain things that went on that I was like... From responses of members within y'alls organization to just other comrades, a level of surprise. You're like, Wait, who the fuck is out here? Wait, what's going on after this? Or like, Why are cops actually swarming this space where people put food and water after marching for fucking minutes. And so this lack of knowing and just uncertainty, I think, is interesting to name because I think some people will then aim into like, oh, well, it was chaotic because they didn't help. Or, it was chaotic because they didn't pitch in. And it's like, I think it's very important that y'all are centering the real aspects to actual liberation, which is listening to community members, listening to people.
[00:51:01.380] - David
And to y'all point, it's like, low key, if I would have learned of other things taking place previously, one would have engaged differently. And I think it's important to name that. You can't complain if you don't show up to the table. Because the showing up to the table was clearly there, and as y'all mentioned, being open to a diversity of tactics, I think needs to happen. I actually heard that exact same thing during the Socialism Conference about Palestine. Every single form of tactic has been used.
[00:51:30.210] - Caullen
Oh yeah, the panel on day one was like, We've done it all, y'all.
[00:51:31.850] - David
We've done it all and we're figuring it out, and that's where it is. We're pro that, we're not... But it is unfortunate that there's this miscommunication within. Because what it unfortunately led to, to this "constitutional policing" that I'll close for myself. You know, more than seven people were arrested. And a lot of that was in a not an ideal way: journalists were beat the fuck up, people had property destroyed. So it's like, this whole idea that police did their job, the way Caullen named, even if they do their job, it's bad. But there's still certain things that it ruined.
[00:52:05.630] - David
And then the thing I'll name is people who live by the UC, bro, I don't know if y'all know the West Side like that, but it's not Wicker Park, it's not Logan Square, it's not Hyde Park. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it affected a very particular group of people who are just trying to live day to day, get to the Blue line, get back, and how to deal with this extra layer of harassment, which I think it's fucking nuts. It's personally, fucking nuts. But I don't have anywhere else right there to go through left. I wanted to close that statement for my brain. But go ahead.
[00:52:39.040] - Caullen
There's so much there. But I'm just thinking about the "constitutional policing" phrase. I said what I said about it, but just this idea of gaslighting? And my mind has drifted a little bit towards the convention itself. Cause I believe- and I think we at Soapbox more broadly, believe that part of this fight is very much in the streets, the way we talk about it, but part of this fight is around information. And I've said this before in previous episodes, I was visiting my parents in Florida on October 7th. And before that, I was in Carnival. So it was very different time for that to happen.
[00:53:20.000] - David
Vibes.
[00:53:20.320] - Caullen
And my parents are kinda like me, have the news on all the time; for better or for worse. And so we were watching Anderson Cooper just lie to people- we were just watching these horrible things.
[00:53:32.550] - David
Boo that man!
[00:53:33.010] - Caullen
CNN and MSNBC just lying to people. And I'm just like, *sigh*, I'm rolling my eyes and whatever. And I also know how this- I watch enough corporate news, I know how it operates. So I'm talking to my parents who are just like, Oh man, what happened? I was like, Fuck that, here's what happened. So I kinda gave them the tea a little bit. And we're just talking in real-time, we're showing stuff on social media. I'm like, This is a reaction to 75 years of genocide, all these things. And by the end of me leaving, visiting my parents, my dad was like, Yeah, well, the war- or the conflict- well.... He didn't know what to call Israel-Palestine blank because I was talking so much about like, No, this has been a slow trip genocide. What's going to come is going to be far worse, but they're reacting to... I gave him the whole spiel on how apartheid has worked for so long. And it was nice to see in real-time and challenging his own language on how to just describe this, "issue" or this thing in the world. Because the language you've been propagandized to use to describe it is- not just inaccurate- but untrue and not given the context that upholds and names what is 75 years of colonization, plus.
[00:54:45.000] - Caullen
And so on that name of framing and gaslighting, I did watch some of the actual DNC clips and stuff, clips and stuff on social media, but also went back and saw some of it. And looking at the slew of war criminals, ie: Bill Clinton, Obama, Kamala Harris, Biden, talk every night, Hillary Clinton. And... There was a time, not long ago, where I thought every cycle, folks, especially centrists, "liberals", or whatever, they gotta see the writing on the wall as far as this system is not built for us. And part of that I still believe to an extent. But for whatever reason, I feel like there is a revanchist setback to what I thought was some kind of progress as far as knowing electoralism is not going to save us. And I think part of that is because Trump was so horrible. But as we know, Democrats and Liberals just slowly move to the right as a right moves really to the right. And they are better organizers than us. Or them, as far as they're organizing, they do what they want, and they figure out how to make it "practical" and make it policy. Whereas, liberals are also often saying, Oh well, it's not practical. We can't do it, it's not practical. Well, that thinking led to a Trump.
[00:56:05.590] - Nesreen
Yes.
[00:56:06.610] - Caullen
And when we zoom out of the DNC in general, the Democratic Party and where we are in 2024, there's this idea that continuing to, 1) aid and abet genocide. But also, make policies that aren't working for working class folks, for marginalized identities. We all know this to be true, and the fact that they have to keep making policies that are watered-down versions of what movement wants, at best, and thinking that that's going to set us free. We've been through this cycle with Obama, with Clinton, with all these folks, and that's what led to a Trump, because we thought that these people were going to make things right. They didn't codify Roe v Wade, didn't do all these things, or did them to an extent that didn't actually help people. And so folks, you know, the working class or rural white voter voted for Trump, folks always talk about, and the Democrats demonize and the elites are like, Oh, what's wrong with you?
[00:57:01.920] - Caullen
There's an argument of part of Trump's whole rise is racism, of course, but also, Oh, this class struggle thing is not real, people are just racist. I'm like, I actually think it's actually more nuanced than that. I think folks were like, voted for Obama, voted for Bush, voted for all these people; no one's doing anything, this guy says things I kinda like, whatever. I'm just going to try something. And it's like, I think you're wrong, you shouldn't vote for him. But also, yeah, no one's doing anything for you, and you're just trying something. Then we keep doing these watered shit policies that aren't doing anything for folks. Folks just flail and figure something out. So it's like, folks are mad about Trump as the man, not the conditions that led to him. And we're going to keep doing that once we keep putting genocidal folks in office.
[00:57:40.770] - David
I'm curious, did y'all watch any of the DNC? I personally, did not. I saw a little on social media.
[00:57:45.580] - Nesreen
I tried not to, but I watched the Amy Goodman Democracy Now! was showing clips. I was just curious. It was a really hard watch. I believe her name is... Oh my god, Ana Navarro. She was on the stage. She is a Republican from Nicaragua.
[00:58:06.165] - Caullen
Ohhh!!!
[00:58:06.840] - Nesreen
They had her on stage versus a Palestinian being on stage. You know what I mean? And the fact that they had someone like, Yes, we have Ana Navarro on our side, a Republican! And it's like Ana Navarro... Now she's a centrist. And her demonizing communism.
[00:58:25.190]
[audio clip from the DNC of Ana Navarro] Donald Trump and his minions call Kamala a Communist. I know communism. I fled communism from Nicaragua when I was eight years old- I don't take it lightly. And let me tell you what communist dictators do, and it's never just for one day.
[00:58:47.090] - Nesreen
And it's like, she's the daughter of someone who murdered people in Nicaragua. He's part of the death squads that was trained by Reagan, so like, why are you proud of that? Harris being proud that she was a prosecutor. And when Harris got elected and she took Biden's spot, the infantilization of her image... "Oh, she prosecuted, but she didn't prosecute that many people." I'm like, she still prosecuted Black and Latina mothers if their children were truant. Why are we washing that away?
[00:59:18.080] - Caullen
And held folks in jail longer than they needed to be to work for-
[00:59:20.780] - Nesreen
Yeah. And there's clips, there's evidence of her bragging about putting people in jail.
[00:59:25.840] - David
Weed charges! Weed charges...
[00:59:27.370] - Nesreen
It was just very cringe. Obama talking about immigration, but he's technically the Deporter in Chief, he's deported so many people, more than any other President. So it was this weird Twilight Zone I was watching.
[00:59:40.210] - David
But Michelle. Y'all didn't see Michelle, though?
[00:59:42.940] - Nesreen
Yeah. And they were talking about... But they also were talking about it in a celebratory way, like the Emmys. "Oh, did you see what she was wearing?" "Did you see how those-" and they talk about the party- the Republican being corporate greed. Which is true, all parties are. But they had corporate greed. You had different levels of class. So if your company contributed $500,000 to the convention, you get a higher level and you get skybox seats. I'm sorry, you can't throw stones at glass houses. I mean, I'm sorry- got that wrong. You can't throw stones if you live in a glass house. So it was like a Twilight Zone for me. It was a very, very hard week to watch. And it's just weird how the Democrats think that they're better than the Republicans when it's just them with a prettier aesthetic, that's all it is.
[01:00:31.430] - David
Anything to add?
[01:00:33.070] - Nadiah
Dang, that's a good way to label it. I'm going to steal that!
[01:00:39.110] - David
Michelle spoke to all of us. That's why I keep saying Michelle because that's one of the things I saw.
[01:00:44.040] - Nesreen
She needs to speak to her husband.
[01:00:47.211]
[all] Ohhhhhh!
[01:00:47.381] - Nadiah
Clocked her.
[01:00:47.400] - David
You heard it here first.
[01:00:51.490] - Nadiah
Yeah, I barely watched it. I think what traumatized me was the presidential debates a few months before that.
[01:00:59.400] - David
Whatchu mean?
[01:01:00.300] - Nadiah
With Trump and Biden.
[01:01:02.490] - David
Oh, okay.
[01:01:03.040] - Nadiah
Yeah.
[01:01:04.090] - David
Why'd it traumatize you?
[01:01:06.290] - Nadiah
Wow. Traumatizing because it was like a reality TV show. I was like, no way.
[01:01:12.900] - Caullen
It always was.
[01:01:14.840] - Nadiah
It is. It literally is. Even with the DNC, it was like, oh, this celebrity is speaking, oh my god, I can't believe they performed for Kamala Harris. Just like, who cares? People are dying. Yeah, I literally have no thoughts. It's disgusting, and I'm about to puke just thinking about it.
[01:01:38.960] - David
It be like that. I labeled this next part "the odd, the bad, and the ugly". The odd with Lil John coming out.
[01:01:46.130]
[audio clip from DNC] Georgia, how do you cast your vote? Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhhhh! Ladies and gentlemen, we are here tonight to officially nominate Kamala Harris for President. Fire, get loud, another round of shots! DNC, turn down for what?!
[01:02:07.720] - David
That was so crazy! I liked Lil John, you know what I'm saying? But it's like, I would have never in a million years- if y'all would have been like, on your Bingo sheet like, "Lil John performs at the DNC" that would not have been on my shit.
[01:02:19.610] - Caullen
Mine would.
[01:02:20.160] - David
Really?! Lil John?! No, I see Snoop Dogg. I see Snoop Dogg. You know what I'm saying? There's certain people who are like, Okay, I get it. But like, Lil John? Turn down for what?!
[01:02:30.010] - Nesreen
Chuck D was at the DNC, and that really disappointed me.
[01:02:34.060] - Caullen
Chuck D!!?
[01:02:34.830] - Nesreen
Chuck D was at- you know, Fight the Power.
[01:02:36.020] - David
For the culture!
[01:02:36.890] - Caullen
Wait. Hold on. Rewind. He performed "Fight the Power" at the DNC?
[01:02:40.640] - Nesreen
No no no, I'm just saying he was there.
[01:02:42.270] - Caullen
Ohh, okay.
[01:02:42.630] - Nesreen
And he was taking pictures with people. It was so disappointing.
[01:02:46.840] - Caullen
I did not know that.
[01:02:49.700] - Nesreen
He officially endorsed- even before Harris announced her presidency and it was Biden, he endorsed Biden.
[01:02:54.950] - Caullen
Why? Who's going to... Endorsements are weird to me-
[01:02:58.400] - David
I mean, you're throwing your chips into a side, I feel. I don't know.
[01:03:01.750] - Caullen
Yeah, endorsements, to me, are just weird in general. But also... 14-year-old Caullen would care what Chuck D thinks. I won't lie. But now it's like, Okay? Just don't do anything. Why make me not like you now? Just don't say anything.
[01:03:14.617] - David
Yeah.
[01:03:15.850] - Caullen
Thank you for going through the circus of what the DNC is, and it's celebrity culture on steroids blended with politics. I think that's part of the lexicon in which we live as far as celebrity culture and praising these people and there's the spectacle of it all. And I saw the nuanced reporting we're referring to with the DNC inside-outside stuff, it's like, some of it was with the Triibe mentioning-
[01:03:40.270] - David
Shout out.
[01:03:41.330] - Caullen
This... And Bella BAHHS, you gotta follow her on Instagram, she's a revolutionary and activist, and she performed at-
[01:03:46.820] - Nesreen
We love Bella.
[01:03:47.590] - Caullen
She performed Thursday night at the March on DNC the last night. But I like her takes on most things. And she was like, Look, especially to the thing of my parents, or older Black folks who we love being like, Oh, this is like... And we like to look at pretty things. Just as humans like, look at pretty things. But it's like, can those pretty things be attached to liberation, revolution? My vision of the pretty things I want to look at is all the people in the streets.
[01:04:12.480] - David
Us not killing people.
[01:04:12.890] - Caullen
Protesting against this thing. Protesting for people. But the gaslighting tip, I meant to get to this earlier but I went off on the deep end of something else. But the speeches themselves, 1) they're just lying to us. AOC gets up there, the one time progressive darling, who's just done what she's done in the past couple of cycles. But I was even surprised, and I think very little of politicians, I was even surprised with her saying, Kamala Harris is working tirelessly on a ceasefire. It's just.... it's... I'm in the Matrix, you're just lying.
[01:04:45.880] - David
The gall.
[01:04:46.540] - Caullen
I would prefer you be like, Hey, fuck Palestinians, we out here. Like, Alright, that's fucked up, but at least you're being honest.
[01:04:51.670] - Nesreen
At least you're honest.
[01:04:51.670] - Nadiah
Exactly.
[01:04:52.510] - Caullen
You can't work tirelessly on a ceasefire if you're funding the folks doing the genocide, it is actually that simple. I was thinking- you mentioned Michelle Obama. And I saw some of her speech, and it was mainly- unlike an Obama, and a Biden, and a Hillary Clinton, naming things that were just untrue, or giving out misinformation and fancy words. And also like.... Well, I'll table that. I'm saying, it's not even a good speech. At least lie to me good. Lie to me good, you know what I'm saying? Be toxic. But if I can see through you, what's going on?
[01:05:24.930] - Caullen
Michelle Obama's speech, she mainly was trashing Trump for how he came after the Obama's or whatever. Like, yeah, that was racist, that was fucked up, whatever; but then she kept talking about how the Republicans are being undemocratic on how they're getting on the ticket and how they're organizing. And it's like, oh, no, the Democrats are well documented for suppressing actual progressive Democratic voices and candidacies and whatever. DCCC can eat a dick.
[01:05:48.430] - Caullen
But also making sure that Green Party, just any third party does not get on the ballot at all. I'm not a fan of RFK, but when you're bending the rules or breaking them or if you're not on the ballot, it's kinda fucked up. It's almost like that's not democratic. And so if we believe that- if democracy means what it means as far as the masses want something, then you put into policy, then it's almost like we don't live in a democracy, and we literally never have. Which doesn't mean we can't work towards it, but this idea that it exists is not only mythical, it's untrue. Again, I would appreciate it if folks would just say that. Say we're building towards this idea versus we have this, and we're the Democratic party. It's like, it literally is not true, so why don't we just name that and move forward?
[01:06:33.550] - Caullen
When I think of the gaslighting, I think combating that framing of those narratives directly, whether that's independent or liberatory-minded news outlets or just people on social media who have a takes. Or I saw one guy, he was talking about... He started this Instagram post on like, What is passive voice and active voice?
[01:06:53.290]
[audio clip from @sunnmcheaux post] In today's language lesson, we are exploring active voice versus passive voice. Active voice is when the subject performs the verb in the sentence. Passive voice is when the verb is performed on the subject in the sentence. Sometimes without attribution. An example of active voice would be, "I will always stand up for Israel's right to defend itself." It is clear where the speaker stands and their assistance of Israel defending itself. An example of passive voice would be, "At the same time, what has happened in Gaza over the past 10 months is devastating. So many innocent lives lost." It is unclear how the devastation and loss of life occurred in Gaza. It is not attributed to any particular entity and certainly not connected to Israel's right to defend itself, for which the speaker has vowed unwavering support.
[01:07:40.480]
And you may say that the speaker is only a passive observer because they're just a VP, and any decisions made in the aid of Israel that resulted in the devastation and loss of life in Gaza was solely on G-side Joe. Ah, but that doesn't line up with the next example of active voice. "With respect to the war in Gaza, President Biden and I are working around the clock." So you see, "the President and I working together" denotes a collaborative effort in the support of Israel defending itself. Therefore, the devastating loss of innocent lives in Gaza, as a result of said defense, can rightly be laid at the feet of all collaborators involved. And that is today's lesson in active versus passive voice. Now you know. See you next lesson. We out y'all.
[01:08:19.720] - Caullen
Seeing that spelled out was beautiful. It was funny and poignant, but also devastating to really think about it. I think things like that matter. We talk a lot on this show about social media and memes and stuff. And obviously, the metaverse and corporate tech giants are terrible. Navigating that world is really icky and weird. David and I both got our accounts suspended for a day.
[01:08:38.080] - David
Yeah, these last few days. Yeah, it was like, you're associated with whatever the fuck.
[01:08:40.650] - Caullen
I wasn't posting anything crazy! I had no stories up!
[01:08:41.480] - David
I've been posting crazy forever! But I'm like, what the fuck. I don't know.
[01:08:44.950] - Caullen
I will name like, yeah, Twitter and Instagram aren't great, but also, we're seeing this shit and it can be in row with either radicalizing folks who either know or don't know. And like that video I saw was funny and it was dope, it's so juvenile sometimes. It's so simple and so black and white and basic, that's what frustrates me the most. And when I was younger, even years ago, sometimes things aren't as much the mainstream as folks don't know, so it's educating folks on the facts and then explaining the narrative and the broader-
[01:09:22.040] - David
Mythology.
[01:09:23.420] - Caullen
Yeah, the broader analysis of connecting different struggles, different systems of oppression, and whatever. There's all that. But now it's just like, you are all seeing it. I know you are.
[01:09:32.660] - David
I mean, are they, though?
[01:09:35.060] - Caullen
I'm feel like more than before. I saw something else- I'll wrap this. But it's like, when I was 13, I was really pissed off-
[01:09:40.240] - David
Can you tell he has his own show? *laughing*
[01:09:41.720] - Caullen
When I was 13, I was really pissed off. And then I got older and I'm still pissed off. I was right when I was 13. I was like, yes! I just think it's important, not only just the work we try to do, but also we have to find all these fronts. And a lot of the front is in the mind.
[01:09:58.910] - Nesreen
Yes.
[01:09:59.220] - Caullen
Open your third eye, brother!
[01:10:00.140] - David
It sounds like you answered the ugly for me. It was like, Kamala not endorsing or speaking to or allowing a place for Palestinian voices and the struggle that's taking place.
[01:10:11.520] - Caullen
The Uncommitted vote and then trying to get a Palestinian person to speak.
[01:10:14.820] - David
Yeah. And they themselves took organizing tactics and did sit-ins through the night. So it's like- yeah, that was my ugly. And then the bad, we talked about it at part one, it was estimated that they were going to be like, Oh, it's like 70 million. I think right now it's like 75 million was spent on what is labeled "security" for the DNC. This includes CPD, this includes Secret Service, and it includes- there was also "community liaisons for police". And I've seen them, too. They had little pins like, I'm community or whatever.
[01:10:54.790] - Caullen
What is that?
[01:10:54.790] - David
I'm not entirely sure, but it was people with police officers- you'd see them in the line. Because half the time, I just like- again, I named this, but it was so disheartening. I'm going down the line, I'm like, Chavez, Lopez, Santiago, Hernandez.
[01:11:10.040] - Caullen
Your cousins!
[01:11:10.040] - David
I'm like, Bro, what the fuck is wrong with y'all?! I was like, Girl, what are you doing here? What are you doing with that riot mask on, bro?! I don't know, it's disheartening. So what I would do is, you put a camera in their faces, and you always see them act up in some way, shape or form. Either they pretend they don't see you, or they're like, Oh shit, there's a camera on me with a light on. And it's like, they're holding on for a moment. And I don't know them. They're actually with that. "They got a keffiyeh- Oh, I don't..." You know what I'm saying? It was such a weird feeling. But the fact that, again, the bad is that 75 million could have gone to something that was not security for the DNC.
[01:11:44.100] - Caullen
Where did this money come from? There's always money when the police need it.
[01:11:46.900] - David
I'd love to turn it to y'all, though. Any odd, bad, or ugly things that stick with you after the DNC has come and gone?
[01:11:53.420] - Nesreen
I would say the good is, people are still reaching out to me. Not just to me, but to us, about how it important for us to have this march and showcase.
[01:12:03.210] - David
Marches.
[01:12:04.060] - Nesreen
Yeah. People being educated. Like, I didn't know that Chicago had the highest Palestinian community. So it did bring awareness to the Palestinian Chicago community. I think, even though I feel like having a Palestinian speak on the DNC stage is a low bar, them rejecting it just shows the... I told you so moment to the liberals. She couldn't even have a Palestinian go on stage. Even though I think that's a really, really low bar, and I think we deserve more. That's a good for me because I like showing people's hypocrisy. Even though it's not good in terms of we now know how her and this administration, we always know how they feel about Palestinians, but now it's more in our face.
[01:12:53.120] - Nesreen
And I would say the low is that she's getting... I always felt like Kamala Harris was never even a Democrat, to be honest, by her policies. I feel like she's even shifting more to the right. Right now, her and Walz are ecstatic that Dick Cheney endorsed her. He just endorsed her. And it's like, why do you think that's a flex? The man who is an architect of the Iraq war. The man who is an architect of No Child Left Behind. That impoverished many marginalized communities that you claim you're fighting for. So I think the low for me is that after the DNC, she's turning it more and more to the right, and the Liberals are continuing to put their hands on their ears.
[01:13:36.360] - Caullen
That's such a good point. Because I do think... I talked to someone we know in the Chicago Movement community who was working with the Uncommitted Vote to get a Palestine speaker to the DNC, and I was talking to her because she's like, I've learned so much from over the years. So I'm like, I know you're down. I was like, so what do you guys expect? What was the strategy here? And she was talking about what they were doing on the ground to make that happen. They're like, We kinda knew it wasn't going to happen, but also we had to try 1) because maybe it's possible. But also, to your point, when they reject it, you can say, We tried to do this, and you didn't have it, this is proof. This is a hypocrisy in your face. To your point, too, I also agree, the lowest bar to clear, and they still couldn't even do that. Maybe we knew they were going to do that, but I think now that we tried it and they denied it and it happened, we can point to that as something.
[01:14:25.810] - Caullen
And then the speech was given ahead of time. I read it, it was like- Shout out to this person, I know so much went into that, and it's probably hard writing it, but it was just like, it was very much like, it was not what I would have written.
[01:14:37.857]
*laughing*
[01:14:38.100] - Caullen
Honestly, not- probably not what they wanted to write, but it was enough that I can see the DNC moving on it. Low, low, low, low bar, still said no, and we can point to that.
[01:14:50.700] - David
Yeah, I love that.
[01:14:51.700] - Caullen
I saw the other day that was like, if they're going to have cops on stage talking about, crime is down, funding is up. If they're going to have Republicans, if they're going to have billionaires; it's Illinois' billionaires, JB Pritzker, but billionaires on stage. If they're going to have all these folks on stage, you want their vote. You don't want mine. So don't put them on stage to try to galvanize their people around them and then say, Why didn't you vote for Kamala Harris? Well, she doesn't want my vote. She doesn't need my vote, clearly. Again, this idea of "constitutional policing," playing by the rules, doing what is accepted or, "liberals" [Rush Limbaugh] call this word practical.
[01:15:32.810] - Caullen
Okay, if you want Republican votes, you put a Republican on stage- honestly, that makes sense to me. If you want revolutionary votes, put a revolutionary on stage, you didn't do that so you don't want my vote, and that's okay. That's fine. So don't come at me and be like, Why aren't you voting for her? Why aren't you throwing your thing behind, she's not Trump? Well, you don't want my vote because no one to represent me or my ideology, even barely, is on stage. By your own rules and definitions, you don't want- it's not practical for you to want my vote if you're doing this. I thought about that and I sat with that framing that I really liked. Even though it was unfortunate and terrifying. It's like, You don't want this, so that's fine, cool.
[01:16:10.530] - David
Well, I am curious because we did see... We saw Cornel West and Jill Stein. How did that happen? I'm curious because we're talking about motherfuckers who don't even have the balls to say, This is happening. And here we have third-party members who... Cornel West was at two different things, which was a cool surprise.
[01:16:29.830] - Nesreen
Monday and Wednesday.
[01:16:30.560] - David
Jill Stein was in on the third day. So I'm just curious to hear how y'all, as an organization, was like, Alright, fuck it, let's get them on.
[01:16:39.950] - Nesreen
Cornel West was a surprise. He came up on Monday, and I see people-
[01:16:44.690] - David
Oh, he just showed up?
[01:16:45.680] - Nesreen
Yeah.
[01:16:45.840] - Nadiah
Yeah.
[01:16:46.310] - Nesreen
And then-
[01:16:47.380] - David
So it's not like, he's like, Hey, can I come and speak?
[01:16:48.930] - Nesreen
Yeah, he just goes between the crowd. His eyes are like this.
[01:16:52.650] - David
Yoooo, that's wild!
[01:16:52.650] - Caullen
He was on the list.
[01:16:54.380] - David
Was he?
[01:16:55.950] - Caullen
Yeah. I mean, the thing I got before the first day. But he wasn't planned, he wasn't like he was like...
[01:17:00.950] - Nesreen
Earlier, yeah. And then he showed up the second day and we're like, Okay, he wants to speak again, let him speak again.
[01:17:07.550] - Caullen
Bro, knock some doors. Get on the ballot first.
[01:17:09.340] - David
I'd love to talk about that, but we're running out of time.
[01:17:12.430] - Nesreen
I've actually met Cornel West before, actually in Ferguson, 10 years ago, ran into him. But we're like, Okay, you know what? If he wants to speak to the crowd, let him. Jill Stein was planned because someone in the coalition knew her, and they gave her an opportunity to speak. And everybody's like, Oh, are you endorsing candidates? I was like, Well, no. If someone wants to speak to our community, let them get up and speak. And so we put her on the program because someone in our coalition knew her, and then we put her on the program.
[01:17:41.020] - David
And it definitely, from being there, it wasn't like, neither of them were like, Oh, vote for me. I don't think that was at all in the call. I really appreciate it. Not only that, we got dope-ass shots of both of them.
[01:17:49.930] - Caullen
Coming soon.
[01:17:51.220] - David
Coming soon. But it was just cool and refreshing to see political figures. It's not only for us, we're blessed that we have folks like Rossana and Jessie. One of the things at the Socialism Conference that Rossana preached during their panel was being able to have politicians, or people who play within the system, and have community hold them accountable. It's cool to see. I'm not saying Cornel West is necessarily that guy, but I think it's interesting when we have, literally blocks away, groups of people who can't even utter genocide, and you have these celebrities. I'm just thinking of the No Cop documentary where Benji says:
[01:18:28.890]
[audio clip from No Cop Academy documentary of Benji Hart] Even having a very high profile Black celebrity there didn't move people. At least not in the ways that it should have. We appreciate the folks with big platforms that show up for us and that amplify the message and amplify the demands, but the demands are still emanating from the young folks who actually made that platform possible.
[01:18:48.290] - Caullen
As an elected official your job, it doesn't actually matter what you think, it matters what your constituency thinks. If your constituency thinks that COVID isn't real, and cops are heroes and all these things, it makes your job tougher because you have to convince and bring them in to know that's not the case and offer other solutions. And then when they believe that, then represent that and put it in the policy. Again, that's even if we're going to have this system.
[01:19:16.980] - Caullen
And so I think when you're being condescended to by Hillary Clinton on the Tonight Show, and when you're a rural or suburban or whatever, working-class white person, and you're like, I don't have any other options, generally everyone voted for Trump. People might not like to hear me say this, but if you want to be elected, you got to bring that person in and offer them solutions that are going to help them: like a jobs guarantee, like universal daycare, like all these things we know that people want and are very, very popular policies. I'm not saying it's going to get every Trump voter, don't get me wrong. But it's like, people are people.
[01:19:51.820] - Caullen
I think we... I wouldn't say we've lost our humanity because we never had it, but I think in this room and folks that have gotten us to this point in our communities, what's been so shocking to me... Because part of it, I'm not surprised at how the Democratic Party moves or how electoralism moves, or how celebrity worship moves. But I'm also like, at the end of the day, these are still people. And if we're going to be revolutionaries, if we're going to be abolitionists, or if we're going to not believe in a carceral state, or we're going to believe in people have the capacity to change, that's part of it. And I think part of the part it, I think I and we, more broadly, don't confront as folks with these- not only ideas, but we believe in our heart, we have to be able to see our humanity in folks that may not see it in us.
[01:20:41.900] - Caullen
Not in every case. I also believe in throwing hands. There's times for it, but these are still people. And so how do we galvanize folks and make the revolution irresistible? I thought it was getting easier because these horrible things are happening that are so obvious, and that's not the case. And so we have to dig our heels in. And I think that brings me to this thought, unless it anyone has anything else, where do we go from here? And receive that however it makes sense. What ever you're sitting with.
[01:21:14.110] - David
Do you receive it from y'all?
[01:21:16.610] - Nadiah
Yeah. Wow, that's deep. I think when speaking of what's the next steps? We did this DNC, this mass mobilization, now what do? As elections are coming up in November- we really pinpoint at the DNC that we're not voting. We usually vote. There's this saying that, Oh, vote for the lesser of two evils. But when both parties are actively funding and support a genocide, we're done voting for the lesser of two evils. So what's next? I think the conversation that we've been having, especially in USPCN, is talking to our community now about the DNC. Okay, what do you guys think happened? What is the results that our work and our organizing did? And where do we go from there? Just having those discussions, having town halls where people can come in and just speak their mind and speak their truth. And then building the people that come into our organization, into these members and leaders so we can continue to fight. That's what I would say.
[01:22:39.520] - Nesreen
Yeah. Very similar to Nadiah, we'll continue to activate the community. I will say, whenever- not only our community, but many communities are left in a state of despair. Like for example, when Trump was into office, we met so many new people that are now organizers. You know what I mean? So it does activate community.
[01:22:57.650] - David
Me! I came in the Trump era.
[01:23:01.320] - Nesreen
Yeah. Nadiah pointed it brilliantly, it's a time for us to activate more of our community. Yes, we can't get the party we want- not the party we want- but what we want from whatever President or whoever. But it gives us a chance to activate community because at the end of the day, it's people power. It's not one singular power. And I feel like at the end of the day, people power is way more important. I don't care what Biden, Trump, or Harris think of me. At the end of the day, if the masses are with me, I'm happy. And so, for example, I'm aging myself out here, but I was in middle school when the second Intifada happened. Media was horrible.
[01:23:43.880] - David
For an uninitiated folk, can you explain a little bit of what that was?
[01:23:47.210] - Nesreen
Yes. So "intifada" in Arabic means "uprising". So that's why when you hear right wingers, Zionists and liberals say, Intifada, that's a.... There's a reason why it was an uprising. We're uprising against something, and it's the occupation and settler colonialism. So I was... And Second Intifada means the second uprising because the first one happened in 1987 and the second one happened in 2000. And that actually started in Gaza, so it's very iconic. And I remember the media and I remember the American public, you couldn't even say you were Palestinian because it was so, so bad.
[01:24:20.560] - David
Tense.
[01:24:21.880] - Nesreen
And many scholars, academics have written about why a lot of anti-Arab racism trace, and it's through the demonization- not all entirely, but of Palestinians. But now it's a whole different ball game. I'm seeing Americans change their opinion. I had a friend who went into a grocery store, and it's a predominantly white Jewish neighborhood, and someone approached her, and she thought this person wanted to fight her. And she goes, I'm sorry that it had to take a genocide for me to understand what your people went through.
[01:24:55.260] - Caullen
Brooooooo!
[01:24:55.260] - Nadiah
Crazy.
[01:24:55.260] - Nesreen
She had a Zionist upbringing. If I went back to 12-year-old me or 13-year-old me, I would never have saw that in my forecast. It does suck that Walz and Harris and Biden and all of them are liars. And we have Trump, who is a narcissist. But at the end of the day, to me, it's like, man, activating community, activating allies, activating solidarity is so important.
[01:25:23.020] - Caullen
That's so powerful. Everything we've said matters. And I think we've talked about the organizing itself and tactics, and how organizing works and how we have to be nimble and change things and adjust and also the century-
[01:25:37.990] - David
And agree to things.
[01:25:38.720] - Caullen
And agree to things. The century of organizing that Palestinians have done and all that, and when I think about just my/our role in this is to do all that. We're "Soapbox Productions and Organizing" for a reason. But also the "production's" part and narrative and talking to folks and these moments like that in the grocery store, that's powerful. And like, symbols and clothing, all that shit matters. And I think sometimes folks are like, Oh, it doesn't matter, it's just a symbol, this, that, and the other. It's like, no, that changes conscience. That consciousness changes people and people change the world.
[01:26:12.590] - David
However, just because you wear a keffiyeh, it don't mean you necessarily down.
[01:26:15.460] - Caullen
Big facts.
[01:26:16.170] - David
You know what I'm saying? No, because I feel that as the black square of...
[01:26:21.300]
oohhhhh.....
[01:26:22.510] - David
You know what I'm saying?
[01:26:24.450] - Caullen
I don't know if I'd go that far.
[01:26:25.570] - David
It's like a thing you could buy. Do you know who you sourced it from? Oftentimes, I believe motherfuckers probably didn't.
[01:26:32.240] - Caullen
You know me, I'm a very hard anti-black squarer, and I feel like that's.... But I do hear you.
[01:26:35.940] - David
I don't have one. The one that your boy is out rocking was donated by our boy Muhammad to the Soapbox.
[01:26:41.910] - Nesreen
Okay!
[01:26:42.260] - David
It comes-
[01:26:43.520] - Nesreen
It's legit.
[01:26:44.080] - David
We're mindful. But just, I don't know. That might have been too big of a point.
[01:26:48.180] - Caullen
I'm just saying, again, the black square is a certain type of...
[01:26:51.330] - Nesreen
I would say watermelon on the profile. Because there is people who are endorsing Walz and Harris, and they still have a watermelon Palestinian flag on their profile.
[01:27:00.010] - David
They still go to Starbucks?
[01:27:01.040] - Nesreen
Yeah! Like, that's not really a boycott.
[01:27:04.170] - Caullen
"I'm a watermelon pro-Palestine, not an upside down...."
[01:27:07.900] - Nesreen
A red triangle.
[01:27:10.460] - Caullen
It's like, it sounds like you're not pro-Palestine.
[01:27:12.310] - David
Oh, my goodness. I appreciate you naming your friend's experience at the grocery store because it really connects with Lesley, the recent episode of... They came to the Jewish faith, and so Zionism was just a thing that was just taught. And then there's this unlearning that takes place. And for folks like that, what calls for what? And where do you finally draw the line? I think that's very important. So it just really resonated with that episode.
[01:27:39.870] - David
I think as we start wrapping up, y'all named certain things, but I'd love for some of our listeners to maybe have a way or two to get plugged-in into either some of the current work that's happening or some of the things you're all trying to cook up as we continue to call upon the state to do something or to stop, at least.
[01:27:58.360] - Nadiah
Yeah. I mean, one of the main things, first of all, follow us on social media @USPCN, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We have weekly rallies and just show up, especially in Chicago. I mean, USPCN is a national organization, so there's different chapters in different cities. Check out if you have a chapter in your city, if you're listening outside of Chicago, because I know you guys got some fans. But yeah, come to one of our marches. Come to the front. Say hi to us, and we'll loop you into the work, definitely.
[01:28:33.340] - David
I love it.
[01:28:35.140] - Nesreen
And I would also say in terms of the charitable work, USPCN is working with MECA: Middle Eastern Children's Alliance. We do, not us, but MECA has people on the ground in Gaza. These are volunteers that are away from their families and providing the utmost care that they're trying their best to do whatever is on the ground for the people of Gaza. And so if folks want to make a charitable donation, go to USPCN social media, website, and then there's a link to connect you to MECA children- Middle East Children Alliance.
[01:29:06.600] - David
I love it. Because people got pockets, so open them up. Open them up. Caullen, any final thoughts for the peoples?
[01:29:12.860] - Caullen
Hey, hey, hey, smoke weed every day.
[01:29:17.260] - David
I stay high.
[01:29:19.100] - Caullen
No... I know we're wrapping. I just think, find your sources of information and find diverse sources. We talked a lot about media and the DNC itself and how- like, you talked about in the 2000s, the Second Intifada. I'm thinking about 9/11. I was in elementary school; like, when it happened, I wasn't like, Hmm, I feel like this is a boomerang event of 100 years of genocidal politics in the Middle East. I didn't think that when I was a kid, I didn't know what was going on. It was like, it was terror, terrorism. Obviously, decades later, it becomes more clear, and it's more okay to say that.
[01:29:52.030] - Caullen
But I think to your point, as far as... Or to our broader point, as far as media now, it's still foul, and corporate and shitty, but also it's easier to get information out there; we're doing this right now. There's research-based, fact-based, nuanced, revolutionary narratives in media, whether that's articles or podcasts, or whatever. Always check your sources and things. But I think that's important. I think I didn't have that as a young person, I had to really seek it out, and it wasn't available as much, and it wasn't as easy. Technology, again, corporate media giants, whatever, but it's more decentralized, so try to find that. And I think it's very, very important. We can't get out of this without changing minds on a mass level. I think we're doing that right now in this room. But I think also we all have had different experiences in this world, and I think a lot of that's information. So find those sources that are true and that are real and that are contextual, and look at history and then look forward.
[01:30:53.560] - David
Yeah yeah. I'm really sitting connected with... We were with Muhammad and he mentioned Che Guevara going to Palestine for the first time. So it's like, my Latinidad coming out and be like, okay-
[01:31:06.830] - Caullen
Now coming up there type shit.
[01:31:07.950] - David
Malcolm going... And it's really looking at the Palestinian cause is a call for justice. And while we're not of it, or necessarily rooted in that same thing, it's like the parallels are infinite. And so I just want to give y'all flowers in terms of helping make that revolution irresistible. In terms of- especially with something so heavy, something so deep. Something that- we were talking with Bill Ayers about two things being true. There's hella pain going on, there's a lot of loss taking place; but there's also a lot of growth. There's also a lot of rebirth. There's a lot of unlearning and relearning motherfuckers- take the red pill. You got to give motherfuckers the red pill.
[01:31:46.150] - Caullen
That slop in the Matrix looks awful.
[01:31:47.920] - David
It's just steak... But that's what I'm sitting with. And so, really appreciate y'all joining us for this part two. Our listeners, definitely be on the look out for our upcoming Palestinian Liberation episodes with more homies, because there's so many ways to talk about this conversation. So this DNC conversation is literally but a glimpse of everything that went down. So any last words for the peoples?
[01:32:14.790] - Nadiah
Free Palestine.
[01:32:16.080] - David
That's it.
[01:32:16.940] - Nesreen
Free Palestine. Viva viva, Palestina.
[01:32:19.210] - David
That's it. And from Bourbon 'n BrownTown, as always, stay Black, stay Brown, stay queer.
[01:32:22.880] - David
Stay tuned. Stay turnt.
[01:32:24.810] - David
We'll see you for the next one.
OUTRO
[Audio clip from March on DNC protests]