Bourbon 'n BrownTown

Ep. 105 - Bring Chicago Home ft. Dixon Romeo

Episode Summary

BrownTown chops it up with Dixon Romeo, Executive Director of NotMeWe and organizer with the Bring Chicago Home campaign. On March 19th, 2024, Chicago voters have the opportunity in the state primary elections to restructure the already existing, one-time Real Estate Transfer Tax (RETT) "on properties when they are sold to create a substantial and legally dedicated revenue stream to provide permanent affordable housing for people experiencing homelessness" (BringChicagoHome.org). The gang breaks down the years of organizing it took to get here and the ballot measure itself which increases the existing flat tax from .75% for the total price of all homes to 2% on the home price over $1 million and 3% for on the home price over $1.5 million, yet decreases for all homes under $1 million (~93% of new home buyers). BrownTown and Dixon also push back on real estate lobby-backed lies and places this moment in broader social and political context regarding the mere existence of homelessness in the richest, most powerful country in the world. Get in loser, we're Bringing Chicago Home! Originally recorded March 1, 2024.

Episode Notes

Full Transcriptions here!

GUESTS
Dixon Romeo is a lifelong South Shore resident and executive director of Not Me We, a grassroots community group building power for poor and working-class folks in the neighborhood. Dixon is also an organizer with the Obama Community Benefits Agreement Coalition, which includes organizations across Chicago and residents at risk of being displaced by the Obama Center and the University of Chicago. Follow Dixon on Instagram and Twitter; and NowMeWe on Facebook and Instagram!

Support Bring Chicago Home on their website and follow them on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter! Vote now until March 19, 2024. Watch the SoapBox Micro-doc on Bring Chicago Home!

Mentioned in episode and more information:

Opinions on this episode only reflect David, Caullen, and Dixon.

CREDITS: Intro soundbite from ABC Chicago. Outro music from Journey by Tobe Nwigwe. Episode photo from Chicago Coalition for the Homeless' website. Audio engineered by Kiera Battles.

Episode Transcription

Ep. 105 - Bring Chicago Home ft. Dixon Romeo

INTRO

Soundbite from ABC Chicago: Votes will now be counted for “Bring Chicago Home” referendum on real estate transfer tax: court.

BODY OF EPISODE

[00:00:51.400] - ABC Newscaster

[clip from ABC News report] Illinois Primary Day is less than two weeks away. Now, the on again, off again referendum question pertaining to the increase to Illinois' real estate transfer tax will be back on the ballot, at least for now.

[00:01:04.340] - ABC Newscaster

Votes cast for or against the contentious question on Chicago's ballot, known as Bring Chicago Home, will be counted. In a ruling handed down Wednesday, an Illinois appeals court wrote, "nothing in this decision is intended to suggest that we have any opinion one way or the other on the merits of the referendum at issue. That is a question widely entrusted not to judges, but to the people of the city of Chicago." Broker Miguel Chacon was part of a lawsuit filed by real estate and development groups trying to block the referendum. Last month, the Cook County circuit judge ruled in their favor, deeming the question invalid. That three part question asked Chicago voters to weigh in on raising the existing real estate transfer tax from its current flat rate of 0.75% to 2% for the sale of properties over $1 million and 3% for properties over one and a half million. That revenue would be directly filtered to programs and funds for the city's unhoused population. [end clip]

[00:02:01.510] - David

I'd like to welcome you to another installment of Bourbon 'n BrownTown. It's your boy David coming to you from our studio in Chicago.

[00:02:10.420] - Caullen

Chicago!

[00:02:11.480] - David

Yo ho! It just feels good to say Harambe Studios. You know, it just feels complete. We out here. Clearly, David's getting really comfortable in this co-hosting chair. So, you know, we're feeling pretty good, because I'm starting to say how I'm feeling first. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's been...

[00:02:26.860] - Caullen

[inaudible 00:02:26]

[00:02:27.010] - David

There you go. It's been a hell of a month. You know, the birthday month came through, but we're really blessed. And as always, I'm with my boy, Caullen. Caullen, man, how you doing today?

[00:02:35.260] - Caullen

I'm doing decent. I like seeing you- I like seeing the glow up- happy belated glow day. Not this actual, on your glow day, but also the listeners and everything. Yeah, the butt print in the host chair is nice and it's got both cheeks and it's indented perfectly. I love to love to see it. I'm doing okay. Had some... I'm not gonna say the name because they didn't pay for the meal. Had some good Hawaiian food earlier. It was delicious. No, I'm feeling decent, feeling hydrated, feeling full. Got some bourbon with me, got the homies. So, yeah, I'm feeling okay.

[00:03:10.350] - David

Bet.

[00:03:10.710] - Caullen

Feeling okay.

[00:03:13.370] - David

And with that, you know, we're really exciting, like, a part of me was like, should we tell y'all when we're recording? But I think it kind of matters because with so many things moving...

[00:03:21.780] - Caullen

This is true.

[00:03:22.350] - David

You know what I'm saying. So today, it is Friday, March 1st. And so if we're sticking with the news and stuff, shit might have popped off after we recorded, and that's not on us. But, Caullen, what are we going to get into today?

[00:03:35.020] - Caullen

We're here talking about Bring Chicago Home.

[00:03:36.880] - David

Yeah.

[00:03:37.480] - Caullen

Referendum on the March 19th primary ballot in Illinois, Chicago, Cook County specifically. We'll get into what that proposal, what that campaign is with our guests in a moment. But we're looking at that campaign and the site of, really, homelessness in Chicago and abroad. And, you know, progressive legislation and how we get it passed, how we get it into policy, right? And how that policy actually is actualized in helping people in real ways. And then, you know, backing up from that, even understanding that normally, when things are approved and budgeted and carried out and when we get wins, which hopefully we do with this, there's still so much work to do. And it's really the floor of what the world should be, but it's the first step, right? So I'm excited to get into this conversation about organizing, about systems of oppression, about how to challenge those systems and how to beat those systems.

[00:04:30.630] - David

Yeah. And with us, we have a very special guest, Dixon Romeo. For those who don't know, Dixon is a lifelong South Shore resident and executive director of NotMeWe, a grassroots community group building power for poor and working-class folks in the neighborhood. Dixon is also an organizer with the Obama Community Benefits Agreement Coalition, which includes organizations across Chicago and residents at risk of being displaced by the Obama Center and the University of Chicago. Dixon, what's up?

[00:05:03.610] - Dixon

What's up, y'all? It's me.

[00:05:06.730] - David

How you doing, man? It's been a long day, I'm assuming, long week, long month.

[00:05:10.690] - Dixon

Yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm excited to be here. I think, you know, organizing- oftentimes we do very formal, kind of, like, interviews, which is important. But sometimes it's nice to do stuff like this, that's very content heavy, but also chill and fun. So I'm pumped.

[00:05:33.020] - Caullen

Who's gonna tell him?

[00:05:34.360] - David

About what?

[00:05:35.660] - Dixon

That this isn't content heavy or what?

[00:05:37.230] - Caullen

Oh, no. I mean, you said "Romeo".

[00:05:41.980] - David

Ohhh, yeah yeah. But he didn't say nothing.

[00:05:42.720] - Dixon

No no no, yeah.

[00:05:43.900] - David

It's a little flair. You know what I'm saying?

[00:05:45.360] - Dixon

Yeah, it's nothing wrong with it. You know, I think... Yeah, it's nothing wrong with it, I'm rocking with it. Let's roll. Romeo- so when I was in... This is just, I'm just talking now. For those who don't know, it's like, can I say what time it is? Does that affect the...

[00:06:01.080] - Caullen

Nah, go for.

[00:06:01.580] - Dixon

It's, like, 7:30... or 6:40, so...

[00:06:04.950] - David

On a Friday..

[00:06:05.690] - Dixon

On a Friday, right. So-

[00:06:07.590] - Dixon

Dedication.

[00:06:08.490] - Dixon

Yeah, I'm here. But also just.. So, a joke- when I was in elementary school, I used to hate- my mom would come in to get me out of the cafeteria. I'd be kicking it with my friends, she would do pieces from Romeo and Juliet. So, my name is Dixon Romeo. So, of course, elementary school, you gonna get dick jokes and Romeo and Juliet stuff. So I've heard it all, so I'm impervious to it. But..

[00:06:31.710] - David

Yo, that's what's up. That layers of- layers of skin right there.

[00:06:36.790] - Dixon

Yeah, for sure. I was ashy too, though, so that was probably the other layer.

[00:06:40.820] - David

Oh my goodness!

[00:06:42.820] - Caullen

You can't be ashy, ever, around anybody no matter what age.

[00:06:44.820] - Dixon

Yeah, I was ashy then.

[00:06:46.210] - Caullen

Or you gonna get it.

[00:06:47.180] - Dixon

I didn't care. I was like, bro, I'm finna go to The League, so being ashy don't matter.

[00:06:51.770] - Caullen

You be like Kevin Durant?

[00:06:52.630] - Dixon

That's what I thought. Right? And then I just never grew from there. So now I know the truth.

[00:06:58.020] - David

So we started with hard truths already, bro. This is it!

[00:07:03.930] - Caullen

On hard truths. Hard pivot.

[00:07:06.700] - Dixon

Yeah, hard pivot.

[00:07:07.650] - Caullen

I intentionally want to get into Bring Chicago Home because I want you to give us that table set. But for those who are listening, for those who may not be familiar, for those who may not be in Chicago right now.. You know, unfortunately for them. Can you tell us a little bit about Bring Chicago Home, the referendum itself and then kinda the campaign, as well?

[00:07:28.060] - Dixon

So Bring Chicago Home is a campaign about homelessness. So in the city of Chicago, there are about 65-68,000 homeless folks. When we talk about homelessness, we're not just talking about folks on the street, we're talking about folks who are doubled up, right? Meaning that you're staying with a friend, family member, but you don't have legal access to or right to that space, your name's not on the lease, you are not a child under 18 living with your parent- homelessness. When we look at major cities like New York, LA, Houston, a lot of them are doing a lot of stuff around homelessness and/or have a dedicated revenue stream to address the issue, right? Chicago does not. Every year, it's kind of like patchwork money to address it. And so what this campaign is about is getting a dedicated revenue stream so that every year we're consistently working on and have a dedicated amount of funding to address homelessness.

[00:08:33.900] - Dixon

The method in which the campaign seeks to do that, because of how the laws are set up in Illinois, is that we want to change the real estate transfer tax. For properties over a million dollars- an increase; for stuff under- a decrease. And that will generate the money to, again, be this dedicated revenue source. And how that has to happen is that we have to put a binding referendum on the ballot, which is basically a question on the ballot. So, you know, how you go and you vote for a mayor or president, wherever you're from, whoever's listening, this is just a question. In Chicago, Illinois, though, we vote on it and if it passes that allows the city to then legally make that change. There has to be an ordinance to make that change.

[00:09:22.620] - Dixon

So since I've been involved with the campaign since 20.. I want to say 2020-ish, which is close to the beginning of the campaign, but not the very, very beginning. I'm a part of NotMeWe, we were part of the steering committee for BCH, but the genesis of the campaign came from Chicago Coalition for the Homeless. And so we've always talked about and looked at the campaign as like three phases. Like, phase one is what's the stuff we have to do to get the question on the ballot? The second phase is winning, you know, the ballot campaign. And then the third phase, getting that ordinance passed and starting to implement the money. So, yeah, that's Bring Chicago Home in a nutshell. I hit all the top lines, I think.

[00:10:09.440] - Caullen

Yeah, that was great. I mean, yeah, I'm not on the campaign, you are. No, but I think I, and we, have been thinking about it a lot as far as citizens of Chicago, people who live here and care about the world and care about folks being housed. But also folks, Soapbox, and being in the orbit of folks who are doing this work might be, you know, David and I are not organizing with the campaign directly, but a lot of our homies are. I texted, actually, Donbi, today, I was like, hey, what's good? And she's like, oh wait, are we meeting this week? And she's like, oh, I'll be canvassing. And I'm like, hey, I'mma be slanging them cameras, we out here.

[00:10:36.680] - Caullen

So thank you for that top line of what it is. And I think, you know, we did the interviews for the microdoc, coming soon, yesterday. So it's fresh in my mind the things we talked about there. I even learned stuff, who we were talking to to organize with the campaign. And I think for folks listening to this who aren't familiar with Chicago or familiar with home-buying taxes- I wasn't- I'm not buying home anytime soon. It's like, people are already taxed, that's a thing that's already exists, that one time tax if you're buying a home. 0.75% that's a flat tax across the board. So if Pritzker buys a 10th home in Chicago and I buy a small-ass little condo, we're paying the same tax, right? Pritzker is a billionaire, and I feel like that's not fair. So to restructure something that already exists, where I think some of them is not even misinformation and some of the things people don't understand, which I understand why- it's like, oh, this is a new thing. No, it's a restructure; it's a fair, progressive restructure of something that already exists. And what is it- about 93, 95% of folks who buy a home, that tax would be less for them, right? So it's like, if you're listening, the literal odds are you will pay less on this tax.

[00:11:38.930] - Caullen

And so I think that's a.. We get the misinformation, or the flat-out lies whenever it feels good. But I think that's something that even just hearing about it, you know, it could even sound confusing on its face. And it's not restructuring a thing that already exists, right? And it's good and that all that money goes dedicated, binding, to go to help folks who are unhoused. I think that's really important, too. When we talk about policy and when something passes, but it's like, oh, some of the arguments you have heard is like, oh, it's a slush fund for the city. And it's like one- that's not true. And two- if you're really concerned about that, then like, *whispers* look at the police budget.

[00:12:15.480] - Dixon

Yeah. I think that like... I look at it in two ways. Part of me, especially when we're knocking on doors, talking to people- you have to honor that when folks are like, the city is just gonna do whatever with this money that's coming... The place that's coming from is legitimate, right? For some folks, obviously, the realtors who say that, I'm like, bro, shut up. You know, but...

[00:12:44.690] - Caullen

You're getting tax subsidies.

[00:12:45.950] - Dixon

Right, right, exactly. But for- that's real. And I think that like- the thing I tell people when they bring that up is like, if this is your second or third time seeing me, right? You know the group that we're a part of, you seen us out here for years doing this work. If you think we're doing all this work to let this money go somewhere else, then like, you know us better than that, right? All the folks who are knocking these doors now, are- we're like, the goal, and literally our plan, is to ensure that it goes towards permanent support of housing. Not shelters. Not like- vouchers can be a part of that and everything, but permanent support of housing.

[00:13:26.560] - Dixon

One thing that I'm really clear on, and that we talk about at NotMeWe is like, that there is no situation where someone having a home is like- or someone having a shelter is better than a home, right? It's domestic violence, substance use- like, whatever it is, having a place that there's some permanent, that you have some isolation, that is a better place. And so that's one of the reasons we're really big on this campaign. And I think letting folks know, yeah, we're going to continue to fight to make sure this money goes where it's going to go. Is a key piece, I think, to building a trust with the community, but also having this thing pass. I think what I like about this campaign a lot is that, I think, there are some people who you talked to them maybe three, four years ago. Or even two years ago or even 18 months ago, they're like, this campaign, it's too many steps. It's too complicated. It's not gonna happen. It's too much.

[00:14:28.400] - Dixon

And I think the reason that this campaign has gotten to where it has- there are different pieces and all the pieces matter- but, was the period where Lori Lightfoot... So the former mayor of Chicago, had ran and promised and said she was going to pass this campaign. Then she turned around and tried to literally do the thing that people are talking about. She tried to have the real estate transfer tax be changed, but then used- wanted the money to go to other places. And then this coalition did work in Springfield to get senators- representatives to say, we're not doing that. And then we organized throughout the rest of our term to hold her accountable on that. Trying to force a city council meeting, disrupting her budget addresses, disrupting her budget town halls. So I kind of share that with people on the door is like, that's how we coming. So if that is the case again, we on the same type of- at least for us that's who we are.

[00:15:24.820] - Dixon

And so I bring that up to say like, that that's what I really care- that's why I think I care about this campaign a lot. Because there a lot of directly impacted folks who've been homeless, folks who are homeless, who have done so many things over years consistently. And despite what the experts, other people have said, have kept going and did the stuff to put it in place to make it a reality. I think like, you know, if Paul Vallas was mayor, maybe we're not in a situation where we're on the ballot at this stage. But two years from now we would keep fighting and that's why this campaign is amazing to me, because it's some hard headed folks. Some hard headed fucking people who, you know, despite all the talk, just keep grinding. And I appreciate folks who are hard headed. At times, sometimes.

[00:16:26.880] - David

If they're on your side.

[00:16:28.050] - Dixon

Yeah. If they're moving with principle, yeah, for sure.

[00:16:31.100] - David

No, that's what's up. And for most of our B'nB listeners, we've been talking about Bring Chicago Home for some time now. And I think the first time-

[00:16:38.640] - Caullen

We really have, yeah.

[00:16:39.510] - David

I think the first time we really sat with it was with Rossana and Jesse.

[00:16:43.990] - Caullen

Alderpersons in Chicago.

[00:16:45.640] - David

It's exciting to see how people continue to develop. Because unfortunately, as you named, this has been a very long standing issue. You know, Caullen and I just did an episode Home and trying to find a home for Soapbox. And the struggles and just the issues and the bullshit that people put you through. And that's us like, thinking we doing things right. That's us with, you know, an EIN number and shit.

[00:17:07.150] - Dixon

Right right.

[00:17:09.610] - David

And so, you know, episode 95, I think, was a really good opportunity for us to really look at some of these hard cold facts about how many people are actually experiencing homelessness. And I think, to me, it was important to, what you named, in terms of the definition of it is like, not just because you don't see people on the street don't mean that everyone has a home. And I think oftentimes people get lost in that sauce because you're dealing with your own shit. You're dealing with trying to pay your own rent. Or like if we're thinking about your average Chicagoan. But I really appreciate you sharing and giving us that insight in terms of the years, and the after, right. Because that's always is. It's like, well, what about the COVID money? I've heard like, well, isn't there- the federal give us $200 million? I'm like, first of all, Lori used like, 80 stacks on the police's overtime. So, like.

[00:18:04.450] - Caullen

More than 80 stacks. Isn't- doesn't "stacks" mean a thousand?

[00:18:09.470] - Dixon

Stacks means a thousand. My understanding.

[00:18:11.790] - David

Okay, appreciate you. But the point I'm saying is like, it's just so interesting how people- what they want to grab when they want to grab it. When we talk about like, information or whatever. It's like, oh, you didn't give a fuck about these COVID relief funds and where they were added 2020 with Lightfoot. But now all of a sudden four years later, you're like, well, where's the money? We should have been asking that 2020, bro, where were you at?! So, you know, it's just interesting. And so as we continue to digest this conversation of where we're at, right, because we're gonna get to the lawsuit in just a moment. But- and where we want to be. Where we want to take this. And the implementation of what that looks like. And we'll probably be talking about, you know, issues with the implementation. Because, you know, it's not going to be perfect, but appreciate that. Caullen, I see you brewing over there.

[00:18:55.750] - Caullen

Yeah, I'm brewing all the things. I mean, it's like a... When speaking to audiences about this, particularly the referendum itself. What you're saying, Dixon, is like, talking to folks who are in good faith like, I don't trust city to do what they supposed to do. You like, okay, facts. Like, heard.

[00:19:11.490] - David

I don't either!

[00:19:12.290] - Caullen

I don't either. So like, so we agree?

[00:19:14.430] - Dixon

That's why we here. Right.

[00:19:15.530] - Caullen

And then you kinda get to why this is different. And like, you build trust with folks. That's why actual organizing, organizing people power is important. Then what you're saying, David, the folks who want to pick their arguments and what feels good, but it's like, no, you're not- one- you're not consistent. Two- if you want to talk about social funding for the city, let's talk about that. I get it. I think that's bullshit too, I agree. How do we go from there? So like, that bad faith and good faith things I think are important to figure out, especially if you're talking to folks who you don't really know where they are.

[00:19:43.200] - Dixon

And I think the other thing too is like, as a organizer, you can't be good unless you kind of are... You're like deeply listening to people. Like, I don't- I very rarely- I don't think I've ever... Maybe when I first started, but like, the last four or five years, I don't- you can come to our meetings, you can see on doors, I actually don't get in back and forth with people. Not that they aren't worthy of it or anything like that, but it's like, I'm really listening. Like, alright, what are you saying? And I think to me, even if you have a genuine concern about like the COVID money, for example, my response is that like... Let's assume we have the power, and you come with me and get on this bus, we gonna go to the mayor's house or city hall and we gonna make sure they spend all that money. The COVID money. It's then gone the next year. That's why we're doing this thing for a dedicated revenue source, right?

[00:20:40.800] - Dixon

So I think it's like- I hear the concern, but let's put it in context in the larger piece. Because the city should spend that money. I don't make- I'm not here to make- I don't work for Brandon Johnson. I'm not here to make excuses for him. Niggas stand up when he walk in the rooms, he don't need me to defend him. He's good. But like- and Brandon's my guy, he's great. And I think, that there's some, you know, that argument, there's something there that, what IS the city doing with that? And I don't know the specifics on that, but I do know is that regardless of what happens with that money, we need a dedicated revenue source, because ten years from now ain't no COVID money. You know, we were joking before the podcast started like, you can't even get free tests no more, bro. Like that. You know what I'm saying? They are very much like, it's not a pandemic in a pandemic.

[00:21:27.830] - Caullen

Right.

[00:21:28.300] - Dixon

But regardless, before the pandemic, during, and whether you think it's over or not, we don't have a dedicated revenue source in the city of Chicago to address homelessness. So I try and putt it in context for folks, for us to move forward, to your point. Whether it's good faith or bad faith. If there's bad faith, I have to do like, two, three rounds of that. And you can kind of tell, and then you move on. But good faith folks usually are like, alright yeah, you right. Okay. What's the thing? And then you see a different mode of them trying to engage.

[00:21:56.360] - Caullen

The all caps in the Facebook comments tend to be bad faith. *laughing* With the middle finger emojis.

[00:22:02.230] - David

Like, I'm all anti-government, or anti-trust in government. Like, we can rock together, bro. But it's like, I'm hearing you. And, to me, it was really interesting- I love, you know, if you have my attention, I'm talking about the realtors of Illinois or whatever, you got my attention. So for the last 90 minutes, I've been doing a little research on our friend here, Jeff Bakers. Who's the CEO of... And it's just so interesting to hear them defend their stance, because they're not even really defending, they're just more talking shit about something else. It was like, they're not defending their own thing.

[00:22:39.150] - David

And one question I did want to ask that I was a little curious in, because, you know, I'm not in real estate, so I don't know what the fuck my man was talking about the market was doing shitty in 2021-22 and in 2023 it sucked, and this is only gonna hurt the market and whatever. And so I was just curious because he kept using this transfer tax as unreliable. Like, it's unreliable. Like, what? Could you help explain for us folk, like, what the fuck is he trying to say?

[00:23:03.860] - Dixon

Yeah, I mean, so the idea is unreliable in my sense, and I've never met- I know who Jeff Baker is obviously- but I've never met him in person or nothing like that. But my sense about what they're trying to say is, you know, because of the way in which the real estate market moves and the way in which properties get sold- one year, the real estate transfer tax post-Bring Chicago Home- assuming we're successful- could generate $200 million. And the next year it could generate $205, the next year can generate $300. And then the year after, they can generate like, $89. In theory. Because different stuff happens; people decide, I'm not going to sell this year, I want to do this or that. Or there's folks who own kind of larger properties of the really big, stupid, dumb mansions.

[00:23:52.170] - David

Like Michael Jordan's crib.

[00:23:53.450] - Dixon

Right, right. That's not in Chicago but something like that, of that size. And you're saying, actually I'm gonna do some of my own little financial trick and redo this and do this another time, I want to leverage this to get a loan from somebody, you know, whatever they're doing. But I think that is, again, one of those things that's like, once you dig into it, it's not like- well, yeah, a lot of revenue sources that the city uses aren't... Every year, it's not like a perfect thing.

[00:24:20.300] - Caullen

Or anybody. Like a job. Like, yeah, dude. I don't know.

[00:24:25.500] - Dixon

Like some years your insurance goes up because you got in an accident. Some years you didn't, so it goes back there, you know, whatever. But long story short, what the city should do and what we want them to do and what they've said they will do is that they're gonna budget it at a lot. So like every year you're only spending so much. In the years that goes up, there's more but that is... it's not like...

[00:24:48.300] - Caullen

It's just simple budgeting. Have contingency on what you make.

[00:24:51.160] - Dixon

Exactly.

[00:24:51.780] - Caullen

Like, it's really not that difficult. I think of this as twofold- it's the restructuring, the tax thing, and then the real estate lobby coming at this like they are, because they feel they're not gonna make enough- more money or they're not gonna be able to make moves how they're supposed to, or how they think they're supposed to. And it's just funny cause that argument is actually irrelevant. It actually doesn't- say everything you're saying is true, and then what? Like, it's actually irrelevant.

[00:25:19.460] - Dixon

It's not solutions based. Like at no point.. And I'll say this- I don't know if I should, but I will.

[00:25:26.330] - Caullen

Do it.

[00:25:26.800] - Dixon

We've had meetings with some of the realtors, pre-Brandon, and asked like, well, okay, if you don't like this, what is your alternative? That generates around $200 million a year- enough so that we can actually chip away at this consistently? There's never been presented a realistic alternative that actually addressed the issue.

[00:25:54.880] - Dixon

And so for me that kind of lets me know where they at, right? I think there's oftentimes it's like argument, where people are presented as doing stuff in good faith, but they're not. And I think for the real estate market to be successful there has to be a population of homeless people- that is like a function of how it needs to work. And, so I think, we're not gonna get a meaningful solution from that space, right? Like a butcher is not gonna present you the best vegan burger you've had in your life. It's like, no, no, it's kind of what I do, bro. Like I cut meat and animals and I serve animal products, right? I'm not interested in this garden burger. That's not my deal. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, I just kind of think about that in context when we hear stuff from realtors.

[00:26:55.760] - David

I mean, I appreciate you saying that because I think on multiple videos I saw of Jeff, it was like, oh in my org, you know, it works really hard- if the city gives me a concrete plan that they want to put in place, we're down to support that so we know where the money's going. It's like, if I know nothing, I'm looking at Jeff and I'm like, oh, you know what, maybe he's right..

[00:27:18.010] - Caullen

Is Jeff Bakers a white man by chance?

[00:27:19.210] - David

A hhwhite man, yes. The mountains of caucasian-iest.

[00:27:21.950] - Caullen

Interesting how you just trust him automatically.

[00:27:23.850] - David

Well, you know, the way he says things... Where, what we were talking prior too, is like-

[00:27:28.990] - Caullen

So fascinating how that works. He had a tie on, too.

[00:27:29.140] - David

And a suit and a tie!

[00:27:31.320] - Caullen

Damn! Them respectability politics, hard at work!

[00:27:33.580] - David

No, but- that's why I think it's important that we have these opportunities to be able to talk about, and for folks to truly understand like, you know, you've been saying like, lies, right? I think we... Early B'nB we'd be like, Oh, you know, disinformation. It's just like, no, it's blatant lies. And just the manipulation in order to, in this point, vote no on something that would hurt. That they are that 5% that we're talking about, that would be affected by this. And not even by a lot! It's like, bro, you still gonna have the building, you gonna have money. Just tell people you're greedy and then-

[00:28:08.260] - Caullen

You hate homeless people, then we can go from there.

[00:28:10.320] - David

For real! Oh, my god, it could all be so simple.

[00:28:11.940] - Caullen

It's that bad faith, good faith thing, right? I think, I'm glad you named that as far as the inherent structure of capitalism- it needs a disposable workforce or disposable people in order to profit and etc, etc, etc- read Karl Marx, whatever, or anyone else. But it's just like, they need this population in order to extract funds from the city and from people in order to exist in a way. And so the fact that homes are not a human right, the fact that homes and housing is a commodity that's bought and sold, but it's actually necessity- I think therein lies the structure of how this works in the first place. I need a home; you don't have to be a landlord- it's an investment, it's a risk. And so even during when COVID first started and there was no rent relief, but there was mortgage relief, and it's like, well you don't have to own several homes- I need a place to live. So those priorities and the political will to change that is..

[00:29:02.910] - David

Fucked up.

[00:29:03.130] - Caullen

Totally backwards and inhuman, in a way, you know what I mean? So I think that's at play here at the same time. At your point about all this oppo-research and ads and shit- it's just like, one- they're lying to you. And two- the ones that even aren't lies like, "this is gonna happen", it's like, there's no crystal ball, you don't know that. Like, one of the things is like, rent's gonna go up. One- no, it doesn't all just go up. Your landlord may use it as an excuse to raise the rent because your landlord is a shitty person, but this isn't why. And so how do we even use the fact that landlords could choose to do that as a way to rally behind tenants unions, rally behind fighting the system in the first place, rally behind getting a rent freeze, you know, things like that. It's like, I almost think it was things we can use to organize better. They're saying these things which, again, are not going to happen, but if folks choose to do that, that's pointing to something bigger. Kind of what you mentioned with the inherent...

[00:30:02.880] - Dixon

Yeah. I think in general, the whole argument of "you made me do this." Things like that are never inherently healthy, you know?

[00:30:10.420] - Caullen

The toxic relationship of business.

[00:30:10.610] - Dixon

Yeah, exactly. It's never... It's clearly, you know, that's what that whole rent argument going up is. And then, I think the other thing I'd add too is like- what year has the rent not gone up?

[00:30:23.000] - Caullen

Yeah, it's going up already.

[00:30:25.570] - Dixon

So this idea that this extra $200 million a year- and again you cannot go downtown and throw a rock and not hit something that is worth more than $200 million- just in terms of context. In fact, it costs around $750,000 to develop a unit of affordable housing. One unit. So, in fact, you can go to some poor parts of the city and throw a rock and hit stuff that is worth more than $200 million, you know what I mean? There is not.. The idea that this is a huge herculean amount of money is just not genuine or not a good faith kind of argument, to your point.

[00:31:13.630] - David

No, and so on that note, I think, to me it's so interesting when you see something fighting for its life, right? See, I don't watch the news, so I didn't know nothing about what was going on with the opposition. I could see Bring Chicago Home on my social media. And then I was at home watching my Bob's Burgers.

[00:31:38.170] - Dixon

Bob's Burgers.

[00:31:38.850] - David

Bob's Burgers and a Hulu ad, 30-second Hulu ad plays. And for a second I thought they were tripping. And then I was like, naw this ain't it. It plays two more times in the episode. And I was like, yo, how much money are they spending? Because it was a good, it was like- coming from a production standpoint- it was decently made.

[00:32:01.060] - Caullen

They had a budget.

[00:32:02.360] - David

This wasn't no $100, like, I'll do it out of the labor with love type of shit.

[00:32:07.160] - Caullen

Filmed on my iPhone.

[00:32:07.820] - David

it's just... I wish, because I spent time looking for this ad and it's just so interesting that you can't find it nowhere, you can't find ads nowhere. But they're available via Hulu. And it's just like, we've started seeing the increase of some of this content, such as this:

[00:32:26.930]

[clip from oppo-ad] Mayor Johnson's been in office nine months. Now's a good time to ask, is Chicago on the right track? How's the mayor doing on crime? Do you feel safe? Happy with how the mayor is handling the migrant crisis? Now he wants a big new tax he calls the mansion tax, but it's really not. It hurts renters and means higher taxes for homeowners. Do you trust the mayor with more taxes? Let him know..

[00:32:56.780] - Caullen

*creepy voice* This negro's tripping. *laughing*

[00:33:00.280] - David

Have you seen that, Dixon?

[00:33:02.150] - Dixon

Nah, it's my first time.

[00:33:03.580] - David

Thoughts?

[00:33:04.210] - Dixon

No bullshit, literally first time. I've seen some of the other ones and I've heard some of the other... I've seen all the mail pieces, but I haven't seen this.

[00:33:12.540] - David

Okay, okay.

[00:33:15.640] - Dixon

I feel like... *laughing* And I'mma give a serious answer, but I want to give just my honest reaction first. I feel like they gotta go even darker. They should've had like... This felt like an ad for Svengoolie or some shit, they should've had blood going down the screen.

[00:33:33.830] - Caullen

"The crime!"

[00:33:34.380] - David

Bullet holes. *shooting sound*

[00:33:34.460] - Caullen

Jussie Smollett!

[00:33:35.180] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. I feel like these ads have fallen off since the Reagan era. The Reagan era ads were tough.

[00:33:45.980] - David

We gotta bring them back!

[00:33:47.310] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. The welfare queen shit... the Willy *inaudible*. Like, that's real hate. They're dialing it back. In all seriousness though... *laughing* And they're always black and white. It's like, *dun dun*

[00:34:07.110] - Caullen

Did the OJ thing and made Brandon darker.

[00:34:09.130] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying, yeah.

[00:34:10.610] - Caullen

Is he born in America? Can he be our mayor?

[00:34:14.670] - Dixon

He's like, he's not even hydrated, he's licking his lips. Look at him. You know, like-

[00:34:18.176] - Caullen

This Black nigga is ashy.

[00:34:18.590] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying, he's not prepared. So all seriousness, obviously they're trying to conflate issues that folks care about and then tag this one on to the end. So it's like; crime, the migrant- they're trying to create an association that isn't necessarily inherently- there's just no correlation. In fact- or no, negative correlation. In fact, housing people addresses crime.

[00:34:50.570] - David

The current migrant crisis.

[00:34:53.520] - Dixon

You know, that's really interesting, because the genesis of this is for long-term residents, and that is the goal. That being said, even having permanent supportive housing that's aimed towards long-term residence is going to affect and help everybody. And so I think that like- yeah, it's a nice sleight of hand, but I don't think it's going to be ultimately effective because I think the reality of it is like, one- these things are actually deeply oversaturated. I can't think of... I know there was Fair Tax, but that wasn't successful. But, in my lifetime- you said what?

[00:35:36.660] - Caullen

I said rest in peace, fair tax.

[00:35:37.770] - Dixon

Right, right. But, in my lifetime, there's actually very few things that you get to go to the ballot and vote on and there's an immediate change. So I'm getting deep into my take on some of this electoral politics stuff. But like-

[00:35:53.798] - Caullen

Oh, let's get in there.

[00:35:54.140] - Dixon

Yeah, but like. Yeah, it is a different thing of, attack ads are run of the mill; people hear them all the time. And I actually think talking about how bad crime is is saturated. Again, I'm not an elector-political-pollster dude, I've done a couple campaigns before I got into this organizing work. But yeah, the idea of like, oh, it's so bad, it's so unsafe. Niggas be like, yeah. Like if you take this and tell niggas on 77th and Colfax it's dangerous, like, I know that's why I'm strapped. *laughing*

[00:36:25.040] - Caullen

Exactly.

[00:36:25.640] - Dixon

But I think that for most folks like, yeah, crime is bad. Or the perception. Even though-

[00:36:31.380] - Caullen

The perception is bad even though it's been down the past 20 years.

[00:36:32.730] - Dixon

Even me with my understanding it's like- yeah, since the 90s it's down a lot. And even in recent Chicago time, the past three years it's down. Yeah, so I just think it is an attempt to kind of push people to be reactionary instead of seeing the ultimate vision. And also trying to conflate the issue with the mayor. Again, Brandon Johnson is the mayor, he did not create Bring Chicago Home. He did not...

[00:36:59.440] - David

He never called it a mansion tax.

[00:37:01.120] - Dixon

Right, right.

[00:37:01.810] - David

I didn't even know that's how it was being referred to.

[00:37:03.630] - Dixon

Well, we do. We have. But I'm saying, this campaign started before he was the mayor. And now that he is the mayor, he's picked it, he's supporting of it, obviously. But it's not his thing. This is a community effort. Folks like Keith Freeman, who worked at Chicago Coalition For The Homeless, Edrika Fulford, who's no longer with us. I'm sorry, I get emotional thinking about Edrika. But a lot of folks put their time and energy into this who never were in public office, nobody cared about them when they were homeless. Worked at Chicago Coalition For The Homeless and crafted it. So also it's like, they want to conflate it with the mayor, and it's like, sure; ultimately, when we are successful and this passes, he's gonna be up there banging the gavel. But there are hundreds, now, thousands of people who have been a part of crafting, lifting this up, and getting it there. So I think there's another thing in the ad too, which is kind of deflating the people power and the populist nature of some of this work that we're doing.

[00:38:07.420] - Caullen

Because it's harder to hate against that. If I'm, whoever Joe Schmoe in Chicago like, I don't like Brandon Johnson. Like, okay, you don't like Brandon Johnson? Okay, great. You voted for Paul Vallas? Great. I'm gonna conflate these other things; you don't like crime, whatever, with this person you don't like. This elected official who's this young Black man, how do I put all that together? And it's like- I agree with you as far as these ads, it's like really? Y'all are doing this again? It's the same formula. But also it's like- I don't wanna call it smart, but I understand why they're doing that thing. And we learned this with the Fair Tax, too. Anything with "tax" in the name, no matter what it is, people are gonna be like, No, don't take my money. No, don't take my money, no no no. People have that knee jerk reaction, always, right? I think if you just drill home tax, tax, over 90% of folks it's gonna be better for them. You know, I don't wanna- I just hear tax, and I don't wanna be taxed more.

[00:38:58.440] - Dixon

They should have had Thanos in there and The Joker. Like, Thanos, The Joker-

[00:39:03.680] - Caullen

Brandon in a Thanos suit.

[00:39:04.580] - Dixon

Voldemort. Yeah. Just all surrounding him. They should have played The Avengers music, then it might have- I think it might have snapped.

[00:39:12.080] - David

It would have worked on some folks.

[00:39:12.800] - Dixon

Pun intended. That's what I'm saying. I might be scared if they did that.

[00:39:16.520] - Caullen

There will be no challenge today..

[00:39:18.030] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. Right. That's what I'm saying. They should have AI'd-

[00:39:22.970]

[inaudible 00:39:23] *laughing*

[00:39:27.070] - Caullen

But I do want to make a serious point on what you said about- I mean, I don't know the folks that you just named that have been part of this since the beginning and shout to them. But I think as far as, we talk a lot in this show about electoralism, people power, organizing, all of that. And what I hope B'nB listeners know, right now, it's like, nothing happens in these city halls and these...

[00:39:51.430] - David

Chambers.

[00:39:52.000] - Caullen

In these chambers without radical dope grassroots organizing that years and years, decades sometimes, ahead of this work before anything passes. And when it does pass, whatever does pass, no matter how good it seems, is a watered down version of what it should be and what it was originally. So I think I want to uplift- not only this campaign and the people behind it- not only NotMeWe, but folks for decades at CCH and beyond. And folks just like, without a nonprofit, not any status, just doing shit and taking care of each other because we live in the system, not only in the city, but in this country and the globe. The only time anything good happens that we see in those kind of ways, those chambers, is because of people.

[00:40:28.300] - Dixon

Yeah.

[00:40:29.060] - Caullen

And I think, this win will be on the heels of ShotSpotter being not renewed. You know, kind of. On the heels of the ceasefire vote, which people were organizing for ever to get that. And that was... Some would say symbolic, but I think it does mean something- one of the largest cities in the United States calling for that first. Saying no to police arbitration. There's been several wins just this year that didn't just start this year. It started much before that, that Chicago has been- Chicago organizing has been doing, but you've seen the final thing in city council. And unfortunately, too, it's like, we named some of the alders that have been on this show before and other shows, our left and progressive city council members who are shepherding us along. Some of them come from movement, some of them are being pushed by movement. But we are inevitable. Talking about Thanos- we are inevitable. They are not. I think that's a really important name in this conversation.

[00:41:21.870] - Dixon

Yeah. And I think to your point, so Edrika and Keith were folks who- Edrika was a leader- both formerly homeless folks. And I'm not gonna share too much of their stories, I feel like that's the family and folks at CCH to share, but they both passed away. Keith was an organizer at CCH. Edrika was an awesome leader that I got to meet and work with. And they both passed away in the last couple of years or 20- aw man, imma mess it up. But they passed away very recently, like in the span of this campaign. And I just named that to say, this is about- again, serious, I know you joking and stuff- but this is about people's lives. On a real, real, real tip, right? So many folks in the city suffer in silence because they are blaming themselves or people are blaming them. People internalize that sometimes. And oftentimes the support that's coming to them and from them isn't actually from the state; it's not from the mayor, the aldermen, or a delegate agencies that receives a grant from something something something.

[00:42:43.660] - Dixon

It is the community that is built, and the closer and closer folks are to the ground. And so the pain of what's going on, the closer that solution is. And that, to me, is another reason why Bring Chicago Home is so important because it came from folks like Keith and Edrika who were homeless. Like, that's the solution that folks landed on. So I think that... Yeah, I like how you said it, we are inevitable. And we are all we got. These slogans get like, trademarked and shit, but like...

[00:43:16.860] - Caullen

Co-opted. Drowned out. But it's real.

[00:43:20.570] - Dixon

But it's the reality of it.... Yeah, so I don't know, that's-

[00:43:26.850] - Caullen

I thought too, about- thanks for that, too. Appreciate it. Just holding space for those folks who have been throwing down and, you know, would not be nameless if we were in the space and talking about him, right. We kind of talked about it earlier as far as when things are passed, the thing that still has to happen; has to be implemented, has to be budgeted out, has to actually happen. And what I- at least from what I've seen on this- in order to get to this stage, city council voted for it, voted for it to be in the referendum. After it passes. After it passes, goes back to them to make it an ordinance. And we feel pretty confident about that because they voted for it the first time. And after that, then things are getting underway.

[00:44:08.040] - Caullen

You've named the permanent housing. You've named the wraparound services, which I think is important because when folks have homes, everything else is easier, but there's still things that go beyond that. And I would love to kind of talk more about that. But I do want to say, part of the plans, when the funds are prioritized to both those things, they can really expand like; one-time capital, staffing improvements for shelters and things, making permanent housing, there's a 15 person advisory board that's made up of folks with lived experience, service providers as well, community orgs. It's a diverse group of folks across the board that are making sure that the money is spent correctly. And there's an accountability measure kind of built into it as well- which I think is important for seeing it out and seeing it through. That's not always the case. And I think that's part of why some folks are like, I don't trust the city to do what they're supposed to do because they say this and they often turn their back. And it's like, fair. This is different because it's written in there.

[00:45:04.740] - Dixon

Yeah. And I think, yeah. All that is true, and.... I think that part of the legislative process is that until something is finally passed, there's always an opportunity for there to be tweaks. And part of the work that we're doing, in terms of the point I made, people on the doors- like. One of the reasons I'm talking about this- because I don't just need you to vote for this, I also need you to show up when we make sure this passes. Because it's not gonna be- you know, Rossana's not gonna stand up and be like- or Alderman Rodriguez-Sanchez, alderperson- she's not gonna stand up and be like, actually y'all, I want this money to go to police. She's not gonna do that shit. But other alders might. And so we have to do that work to make sure that doesn't happen.

[00:45:51.750] - Dixon

But yeah, currently, as the draft ordinance does have all those things in it, and the mayor's office is committed to make sure those things stay in there. But again, like I said, we all we got, and so we got to make sure that we're making sure that happens. But yeah, those things are- were talked about on the front end and put in place so that there is a plan for where this stuff goes. And that there's some protections to make sure it goes where it needs to go.

[00:46:19.340] - David

Yeah. And then bringing us to today, a couple days ago, for folks who had not seen- a judge ruled in favor of the realtors in Illinois, who have been fighting in coalition with hella other people.

[00:46:37.280] - Caullen

Bin Laden.

[00:46:38.620] - David

That the thing was [crosstalk 00:46:40]. That it was unconstitutional. And I think it was-

[00:46:44.370] - Dixon

The Legion of Doom.

[00:46:45.670] - David

The judge was like, cause it has more than one question in the- it's three of them or whatever. I'm just curious, Dixon, if- what y'all took away from that judge's rule? And what that means moving forward? I think for the majority of us, we all know it's still on the ballot. By that point, a thousand-something had already been turned in, so it's like, yo, well, let's keep it going. But taking that a step back. Judge ruling.

[00:47:11.630] - Dixon

Yeah, I think that we need to.... You know, the judge didn't state the reason for the ruling. There's not a specific way it violates this thing. And again, if I say- I'm sure somebody... There's some realtor person who's listening when this drops who's gonna chomp it up. Like, damn it. I don't know the lawyer language, I'm not a fucking lawyer. But what I do know of basis is like, they didn't really say the why. Like, oh, it violates this statute or it violates this thing or this specific part is the part that.. You know, so, but obviously we're appealing it and I think we want to make sure folks still vote yes. Because if the appeal is successful- or when it's successful.

[00:47:58.130] - Caullen

There you go.

[00:47:59.710] - Dixon

Then those votes will be counted and used. And so then it could still happen. And so it will still happen. That's just going to be the process. So, yeah, folks should still vote for it, it's still on the ballot. There's other legal-schmiegal stuff, illegal-meagal stuff that is above- or not above, but it's to the left of my pay grade. There's no- it's not hierarchical, it's not higher up, but that's another department.

[00:48:26.910] - David

Naw, for sure.

[00:48:28.210] - Dixon

My work is to make sure that we still are knocking doors in South Shore and stuff. And I think they're like- I think part of that work- similar to the commercials, the idea behind that lawsuit- not from the judges perspective. Again, I'm not speaking on the judge or what they were doing and why. Just for clarity, legally, whatever. I don't want no issues with the Bar Association or something, but like-

[00:48:51.430] - Caullen

I do. Bring that smoke.

[00:48:52.460] - Dixon

Yeah. Hey!

[00:48:53.000] - Caullen

I embrace the smoke.

[00:48:54.230] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. I don't- I can't do smoke.

[00:48:57.400] - Caullen

We got lawyers now, we're good. Right, Bill? Bill's good. Bill got me.

[00:49:00.740] - Dixon

But I think the goal of the realtors in doing this was to dissuade people. And because they couldn't win it on the doors, it's like-

[00:49:08.020] - Caullen

Talking to people? Oh, my God.

[00:49:08.970] - Dixon

Yeah. It's like throwing spaghetti on the wall to see if it's done. They wanted something to stick. And the idea was for this to stick.

[00:49:17.130] - Caullen

It's one of those things that when I saw it happen, I was kind of shocked because I just didn't know that was brewing. But also I was like, oh, of course they're gonna do that, I shouldn't be surprised. They're not talking to people, they're not building power. They're not getting opinions and having real conversations with a vast majority of Chicagoans. They have concentrated power and money. What do folks who have that, and again, in my view, want to pass or stop any humane things from happening? They use the courts. They use legal pathways. They use anything they have access and power to. Luckily, in several years, we've seen organizers have radical lawyers and kind of try to fight them on their own turf type of way. But of course, they do, because they always use the courts. They always use that way of using, you know, what's-her-name had a book called White Rage, I think that's part of it. And also it's capitalist rage. They're going to use the power of money to maneuver the things they have. They hadn't made their marionettes over in the first place.

[00:50:12.980] - Caullen

And when this drops- Maria Hadden is a co-sponsor, she's an alderperson in Chicago, if you all don't know. Up north. But she has been throwing down with the campaigners, with trying to get it passed. And she says in this article, kind of about the lawsuit, "These groups who are suing to prevent voters from giving the city council the authority to change Chicago's real estate transfer tax are using the court system to undermine democracy and are putting their bottom line over the rights of Chicagoans." Again, I think it's even further than that, it's inhumane, right? And then their response to this is like, oh, this referendum will be a backdoor property tax on all Chicagoans. Which is literally untrue. And it is important that our elected officials not mislead voters.

[00:50:59.700] - Caullen

And so it's hard for, I think, all of us in this room to just read those things because it's 1) they're just lies. And the way they're talking about how they want to protect voters rights, it's really anti-democratic because what they're saying is you're too dumb to understand this question, which is breaking up- restructuring the tax. It's not black and white; yes, no. It's like, oh, here's how we're restructuring it, are you cool with that? So really, it's insulting, one. Infantilizing, in thinking that voters are just dumb and don't understand this question. But somehow they convince this judge who they sought after intentionally to make this ruling. And so I just want to put a pin in that as far as how obvious the powers that be, because we know these people. We know the names. This person who mentioned that- this was- or is the Building Owners and Managers Association of Chicago Executive Director. Like, we know these people, we know their names.

[00:51:52.220] - Dixon

Is that Farzin?

[00:51:53.500] - Caullen

Yeah. I didn't wanna say it cause I don't know how to pronounce it, I ain't gonna lie. But, you know, I don't want to speak so macro like, oh, systems... These people... No, we know their names, know where they live. They have homes and addresses and reasons for doing this. And those reasons are not to uplift Chicagoans, not to honor Chicagoans, not to help Chicagoans; it's further bottom line against people's lives. And I think we need to speak really directly about that as we have in this conversation, that's what's affecting. And we know that when folks have homes, everything else is easier. And the interrelated systems of oppression we always talk about this show and beyond are all interconnected with this. You mentioned- or you may not have mention this- but something I've been seeing in some of the literature and stuff about Bring Chicago Home and the wrap around services is like, if someone is in a relationship that has some gender-based violence in it and they can't leave because the partner is the breadwinner, where are they're gonna go? Like, they don't have a space, right. And that interrupts that violent relationship. I think it's just deeper and it has so many tentacles in all the things, everything else gets better once we have this.

[00:52:56.130] - Caullen

And we've seen this legislation, not necessarily this tax transfer, but other cities who have- and we'll put some more links in episode notes- but other cities who have named like, we want to give people house; first and foremost. You don't have to pass any means test. You don't have to be off of any substances. Like, if you house first, everything was easier after that. It's been proven. The research is all there. We know it to be true. And this is one tiny step in the grand scheme of things towards that. And I think that's important to name as far as, y'all put down so much work, work before you, and all this is great and honored and it's like, man... And this is just the floor of what we can and should and will do if you want to see the world we want to see.

[00:53:31.750] - Dixon

Yeah. And I think that this being the floor is a great- it's, I think, like, and again, to use a housing metaphor... It is the- for some, this is the ceiling, but that is the first floor, which is the floor of the second.

[00:53:52.870] - Caullen

Ohhh, okay!

[00:53:54.410] - Dixon

As we get to where we're going. You know what I'm saying, brother? Open your mind. Naw. But I think-

[00:54:01.117] - Caullen

Read, brother!

[00:54:01.270] - Dixon

Right, exactly. But no, I think that, Bring Chicago Home is going to generate money that addresses this stuff. And it is going to create- helpfully create conditions for us to take further and further steps. Like, Bring Chicago Home is not rent control. It doesn't mean Bring Chicago Home is useless. It just means it's not rent control. I mean, rent control is something that ultimately when we talk about the real driver- or one of the main driver of this stuff is cost. The fact that everything costs more makes it hard for market rate, affordable housing, whatever, whatever. When we talk about public housing and what does it mean for the state, the government, to fund housing for folks that is extremely low cost or free. It's like, that is- those are the bigger steps. Honestly, and we also talk about like, years ago we saw the city, under Mayor Emanuel take people's homes for, I think it was Norfolk Southern, for the trains to Englewood. And use eminent domain. And I think a lot, now, about how that is a tool kit that exists that should be used in this housing crisis. I've been reading, I've been taught like, you shouldn't call it "housing crisis" because it's by design, it's not a crisis. But in-

[00:55:35.060] - Caullen

No, say that. No, don't just gloss over it, I think it's important.

[00:55:37.270] - Dixon

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in the landscape that we have now in Chicago, eminent domain- like, there's a lot bigger, more radical steps we could take. And this creates conditions, I think, to do that. You know, for me, I think that I always think about what is the cost of actions that we take or don't take. And why we're comfortable with those options. Like, being a tenant organizer, doing stuff with NotMeWe has been the best job I've ever had. I think it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do until I really realized what organizing was. And it has been one of the most radicalizing things, because I've seen so many things that become normalized, or rationalized. And Bring Chicago Home helps address a lot of those things, and I know we need a lot more after that. One of the first buildings we organized, it's NotMeWe, the guy's name was Vince Lane. He used to be the head of CHA. People were calling me like, oh, he's politically connected, he's gonna.... I'm like, bro, I don't give a fuck. And, you know, I'm in this building with people who- he's like, he put a fake eviction notice on an orange paper.

[00:57:03.830] - Caullen

A fake eviction notice?

[00:57:05.200] - Dixon

Yeah, like a fake city letter like, oh, yeah.

[00:57:08.070] - Caullen

That's so messed up.

[00:57:08.700] - Dixon

Yeah. Like, the power and the heat- the heat in the building was off. This was around Thanksgiving of 2021. And... Excuse me. This was one of the first public videos we did. Public kind of like tenant organizing things, because we did a lot- we did a couple buildings in 2020 that there weren't press conferences, but there were local actions. Like, if you lived on that block, you knew what's going on because of smaller landlords. But anyway... You know, and the water was off in the building too, so there was no water, no heat. And I watched people buy water bottles, and use them to fill up the back of the toilet, right? Or put bricks in the back- you know, the basin in the back of the toilet to lift the water, to use the bathroom. And he's still charging people rent. Right? Like, that's how people live in the city. And when you see these people at your job, or at your grocery store, or on the bus, or wherever you're at, I think about that as the cost of having to do podcast 7:00 at night. Being able to fight for people and build power with those people.

[00:58:23.220] - Dixon

I think about tenants who I've met who- you know, you meet people who, they tell you about what's going on, they just break down crying. They're like, I'm doing everything I can. I'm trying to take care of my kid. I'm trying to go to work. I'm dealing with all this stuff, and I'm stressing out every night about where I live, right? Because somebody wants to raise the rent $80, $100, whatever, because they think they'll make some money because they're close to the Obama Center. I think about people who- there's a tenant that we work with who's- she's taking care of her father. Her father's living in the apartment with her. Her father has died. Like, he's dead. Like, they're coming to get his body, and the landlord's harassing her like, oh, I want you out this unit. Like, bad stuff happens to people every day. These are the real things that happen on the South Side of Chicago. And so when I hear real estate folks or whoever talk about their bottom line, like, I don't give a shit. Because the reality of it is, the cost of that is these experiences that people go through.

[00:59:25.870] - Dixon

There are tenants that we've worked with who, you know, the landlord refused to fix the toilet, they're using the toilet at local restaurants, their friend's house. And there are people in the city of Chicago who are like, I have to shit in the bucket because they won't fix my toilet. That's what we live- in one of the richest cities in the world, and one of the richest count- in THE richest country in the world, that is how people live in between, you know, 63rd and 79th street. And it's hidden because you don't walk around and tell people that. You don't wear that sign on your head, or you're not telling people that in the club when you try to G down on them. But that is the conditions that folks live in.

[01:00:05.840] - Dixon

There's not a single building I've organized or we've organized where there isn't a domestic violence issue. Where there's not someone who's like, yo, I'm rocking with the tenant union, this is dope; but also, I got to get out of here- not because I'm scared of the landlord or I don't want to fight, because this nigga is abusive. You know what I'm saying? Like, every building. There's not a single building that hasn't happened in. A single one. And this is a group we started in 2020, it's 2024. I've been organizing since 2019, so do the math on that. However many hours or weeks, that is. Not a single building.

[01:00:39.460] - Dixon

I say all that to say, it's deeply radicalizing. And I think that when you see these things, when you experience this stuff, when you talk to people, when you build relationships with people, it is hard to hear that stuff, it's hard to see it. And it's deeply empowering because I've seen every- we are able to build that power together to get to change those conditions. And so Bring Chicago Home definitely is the floor, and it's a nice floor, it's a really, really nice floor. And we need this floor and this foundation so we can build some stuff off of it. We've been doing work for- the CBA Coalition has been doing work around the Obama Center for almost ten years now. But NotMeWe's been a part of it since 2020, 2021.

[01:01:26.000] - Dixon

We've been leading on the South Shore CBA ordinance since then. And it's been a long, hard fight, and we're still going through it. We finally got the ordinance introduced in September of last year by Alderman Yancy. We did a referendum in the 5th ward where 88- no, 91% of folks, sorry, voted in favor of the CBA demands. Like, for the vacant lot on 63rd and Blackstone if the full package and the rest of them. I'm talking about we have precincts were it was like, seven people voted no, and everyone else voted yes. There's some precincts where it's 97% effective.

[01:02:00.080] - Caullen

Yeah.

[01:02:00.880] - Dixon

And then, you know, we still have meetings with some business folks, and they're like, well, yeah, that happened, but that's not representative of the community. I'm like, aight bro. Like, seven versus, like, 300 people.

[01:02:13.030] - Caullen

Like, how better- what do you want to do?

[01:02:15.080] - Dixon

There was y'all. Like, I'm in a meeting with 70. That's what it was, right. But, you know, and-

[01:02:22.720] - Caullen

Jerry, it was you. I saw, it was you did it. I saw you. I saved it.

[01:02:30.610] - Dixon

But, like, yeah. That desire to want to be at the table, to want to be in the mix. And again, we could really get into it if we want, but the reality of it is, in most Black neighborhoods and communities, a lot of the pro-business folks, they're also... They don't want to claim it, they don't see it as that, but they're also part of the struggle. Most of these commercial-. Commercial tenants... I don't say this often because they're businesses and not people, but commercial tenants have less rights than- on paper- than residential centers. Residential centers don't have no rights. When you get a commercial space, I mean, you guys probably know this, getting this space for this. They got to turn the water on, and give you the keys.

[01:03:12.960] - Caullen

Yeah.

[01:03:13.760] - Dixon

That's it. The boiler go out, that's on you. You know what I'm saying? You better have commercial insurance, general liability, workers comp, automobile, like all types of stuff for you to get that space. And if they don't want to fix something before they give you the keys, what you gonna do about it? It's like, that is the way it works. And when residential rents go up, those commercial rents go up. I really hate- and this isn't a shot at none of the electeds or the mayor, nothing like that- but I really hate this idea-

[01:03:44.160] - Caullen

It's a safe space.

[01:03:44.980] - Dixon

Yeah, I really hate this idea that like, the housing stuff and economic development goes hand in hand. Like, sure. But like, the rent eats first for small businesses too. And then you pay your workers a little less, and then your product is a little less worthy. Then you end up getting bought out anyway. Most of the folks who are homeowners are also bank tenants. Like, you don't actually own your crib, Bank of America and Wells Fargo and whoever owns your crib and you pay rent to them. Like, that is your landlord. And then hopefully after you work really hard for 30 years and you pay that mortgage off, you still pay rent, it's called property tax to the city of Chicago. Because if you don't pay that, they will sell your crib to somebody in Hoffman Estates, you know I'm saying? And then they will take your crib and rent it to someone else. Or use it for themselves and flip it.

[01:04:34.820] - Dixon

And so, there are a ton of folks who are really, really directly affected who are a part of this housing ecosystem and market who we fought for. But most folks who are actually living the city actually aren't moving and shaking and doing it big time like that. And I think Bring Chicago Home exposes some of that. We talk about like 93 or 95, whatever the number is, percent of folks- this tax won't even go up for.

[01:04:58.164] - David

Are not buying a crib.

[01:04:58.470] - Dixon

Right. Yeah, right.

[01:05:00.070] - Caullen

It's only if you buying a crib.

[01:05:01.510] - Dixon

And not only that, there's a whole bunch of folks who- like, the overwhelming majority of folks, you not buying no million dollar crib. I don't care how much Shark Tank you watching, how many YouTube videos. That's what I'm saying, bro. You can read Rich Dad Poor Dad all you want.

[01:05:17.580] - Caullen

The Art of War.

[01:05:18.030] - Dixon

You know what I'm saying. Yeah like...

[01:05:20.880] - Caullen

And homeboy went bankrupt. Rich Dad Poor Dad.

[01:05:22.930] - David

He said it was all part of the hustle.

[01:05:24.720] - Caullen

This motherfucker. I swear to god.

[01:05:26.010] - Dixon

No matter how much stuff you're doing, how many app development code videos you watch, and you can have a million LLCs with holding companies and trust.

[01:05:34.940] - Caullen

Bro, the blockchain.

[01:05:35.390] - Dixon

That's what I'm seeing. Crypto, blockchain, whatever. NFTs. You can buy art. Whatever you're trying to do, the reality is like, overwhelming majority of folks are not touching a mil. And, you know... So you can get down with the struggle; we can uplift those most affected and also own that you got a stake in this, or you can try and resist it. But the reality is when we talk about the actual, like, this being the floor and how we get into that real part, part of the work that I think we have to do, which is the long term organizing, which is really getting folks to see their role or how they are also affecting this. Even though you may not be homeless. But you- most folks, you right there. Like, if we keeping it a bean, you know what I'm saying?

[01:06:21.190] - Caullen

Yeah. You're closer to homelessness than you are to a millionaire or a billionaire. You just are. You're a check away- a couple checks away type shit. You are much closer to-

[01:06:32.840] - David

If my student loans wanna pump up a little bit, I'm fucked.

[01:06:34.660] - Dixon

And there's another piece. And again, I'm just wrap, because we wrapping up. There's another piece too of like, this is actually built into the financial way the city works, right? The way the city generates revenue is through property taxes. The city actually makes money off of gentrification. There's a reason... Alright, so the city had 50 schools, right? And they close. And then a whole bunch of new arrivals came. There's homeless people in Chicago, and people say, why don't they use the schools? Because they don't take care of them. Because you can't tax them. So unless someone buys it, you can't tax it. The city's not taxing itself. So they let that shit rot. It makes more sense, financially, to let it rot than use it and do the thing. And if not, it uses operating costs. The city makes money off of gentrification.

[01:07:19.860] - Dixon

It's the department of zonings, buildings, planning, whatever- there's no office of the tenant advocate. You know what I'm saying? If you have an issue with the city and housing, they tell you call 311, it's an automated thing. Or you can go on the app. Or you can go to call the tenant hotline and where they give a community group or some delegate agency $100,000 for two people to work a hotline. And then- or you can go to another nonprofit where they tell you go on an online thing. That's the... How unbalanced the scale is. Because, again, the city doesn't make money off of that. And the mayor's power, regardless of who the mayor is, the mayor could be me, you, you, Brandon Johnson, Paul Vallas, Richard Daley, whoever.

[01:08:04.743] - Caullen

I don't want that.

[01:08:04.860] - Dixon

Yeah, and you say that, but we also got it like- if we're- the mayor's power comes from what? The purse strings. Right? Unless you actually have organized 26 alderpeople, your power is that the budget and like, you were the mayor and the department and shit.

[01:08:21.658] - Caullen

Or 25. You could be the tie breaker.

[01:08:22.720] - Dixon

Yeah, yeah, right. Whatever it is. But it's like, even the most radical person, unless we actually have a huge organized base of people, you are bending to capital into a degree. And so the fact that, again, that's why I also say when people are like, well, Bring Chicago Home is cool, but because of Brandon happened... I'm like, yeah, but it took the eight years before- you know, all the years- not eight, but all the years before that to get it there. And it's gonna keep taking folks pushing for that. Because that stuff doesn't just organically come from folks in those seats.

[01:08:55.060] - Dixon

So, I mean, there's more I can say. But I just think, yeah, we have to actually look at how the city benefits from this and what are the alternatives and things are willing to do differently. We are arguing about Bring Chicago Home at the same time that the owner of The Bears- the family that owns The Bears and the family that owns- the man who owns The White Sox and The Bulls is running around trying to get our money for a stadium. And there are no super critical pieces-

[01:09:25.820] - Caullen

There's not millions of dollars going against how this is bullshit.

[01:09:28.480] - Dixon

Yeah. And there aren't a bunch of critical pieces around like, well, how does this work and where does the money come from? Every campaign of, CBA, Bring Chicago Home, other campaigns I've done when I worked at United Working Families, like, where the money come from? No one's asking where the money's coming from. They're just like, oh we need it. And like, here's the mockup. Doesn't this look great? And the mock up be looking crazy. The people be having three arms, sitting there watching the game like.

[01:09:55.990] - Caullen

Watching The Bears lose.

[01:09:56.660] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. It's not a thing. But when it comes to all this stuff, it's like, we get nickeled and dime and trying to figure out how it works.

[01:10:03.400] - Caullen

We wanna give somebody a home- Well, how do we pay for it? The police need a tank- Oh, here you go.

[01:10:06.670] - Dixon

Yeah yeah. These are things that generate the revenue. So I don't know, I went on a little rant there. But I hope something in there was meaningful.

[01:10:14.650] - Caullen

I mean, I think you're right about what makes money when it's bread for the city, what are they going to do? But also, it's not like- don't even give them that much on some of these, how much money goes in policing, how much money goes in these things that all the research says do not work. What does work is good education, giving people homes. You know what I mean? The data and the truth is there in those instances too. So it's like, not only is going to give the city revenue, it may not. We may have a clear indication that this is not going to work in the way of "solving crime" and/or making the city money but they're still going to do it. I think that's- those are the things I think about as far as this is so clear and obvious in the way folks think about the solutions to some of these issues, but they're still- the bad things are still funded.

[01:10:53.650] - Dixon

And the funny thing about it is like, they don't say that, but their actions show that too. In terms of capital and real estate folks, their actions show that public investments are actually where the money is. What is the difference between a home and a really nice house in South Shore and a really nice house in Lincoln Park, they're gonna tell you location. And what's the difference in those locations, well, it's safer here. Which, because of different investments, right? The school is better because of different investments. It's closer to the water, which is a natural- like no one, you know what I'm saying? There's no business owner who made water. Like, niggas ain't, you know what I'm saying, inventing shit like that. Like, that's the- they tell you that.

[01:11:28.910] - Dixon

The reason that we have issues with gentrification in South Shore and Woodlawn, the Obama Center is a big catalyst, it's going to draw a ton of people to it. But it's because it's a big ass park and it's a really nice lake. Those are the things. And then you add the Obama Center to it, and now there's a draw to that. But all those things come from public investment, right?

[01:11:50.376] - Caullen

Follow the money.

[01:11:51.150] - Dixon

And so if the way that you make money is by public investment, if that's what creates investment- you know, you're already telling us what actually is the real investment, right? Why is the reason that The Bears can't just spin bread out their pocket and build the stadium Arlington Heights? Because where is the... There has to be other pieces there, and they want the state to incentivize that. But the reality is, it's like, The Bulls seat 20,000 people in the United Center, right? They paying however much for them tickets. None of us are seeing a dollar of that. The work- and well there's the jobs, but the workers don't see that money. I have yet to meet a nigga who work at the United Center, when I go to a Wolves game, and be like, yeah, bro, brand new Rolex. Like, yeah, you're seat over there. Like, no, that's what I'm saying. They're not getting these huge, huge, huge wages. But their money, our money's being poured into that.

[01:12:48.360] - Dixon

And we're still paying for Soldier Field, by the way, despite them wanting a new stadium. At the same time. At the same time we are fighting about Bring Chicago Home. Bring Chicago Home could exist and would have to- like, let's just do the math. If they want a billion dollars for the- it's saying $2 billion now. What's 2 billion-

[01:13:07.010] - Caullen

For The White Sox in South Loop?

[01:13:08.430] - David

White Sox in the South Loop... Can you imagine?

[01:13:10.710] - Caullen

I mean, down the line from me, you know what I'm saying.

[01:13:13.840] - Dixon

Bring Chicago Home could exist for ten years, as we want it, and it would take ten years to generate $2 billion. And they want that right now for a stadium that is not going to house a single person.

[01:13:31.790] - Caullen

Ridiculous.

[01:13:32.530] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. And there are people who live in South Shore and Woodlawn and Englewood, who are dealing with shitting buckets.

[01:13:42.150] - Caullen

Literally.

[01:13:42.700] - Dixon

And not having water and not having heat. Or their landlord getting rental assistance from the state or city and not dealing with it. There are new arrivals now who live in Englewood and these different places were getting rental assistance from the state, and their landlord saying, bet. There's a tenant in Woodlawn, new arrival family, they're from Venezuela, they're getting $1,500 from the state. Landlord said, great, I'm charging you $2,000, though. They're like, bro, you took the money saying you would charge $1,500. He's like, yep, $2,000, so you owe me $500. That is what's going on a day-to-day basis.

[01:14:14.520] - Caullen

That's so fucked up.

[01:14:15.330] - Dixon

Yeah. And so for me, people be like, but Bring Chicago Home... Like aight bro, like put all this into context of what's going on. And so the reality of it is, is like, this is a really nice floor, but there's so much structural stuff in this- to use this house metaphor- in this home that we are trying to Bring Chicago Home into. And this is a good foundation, but there's so much else that we're going to address and our plan is to continue to do that. That is the work of NotMeWe and other groups that are part of this coalition is to long term address these issues. And it doesn't matter who the mayor is.

[01:14:49.970] - Dixon

One of the greatest organizing groups in city of Chicago is KOCO, they've been around- Kenwood Oakland Community Organization- around for decades. I'm talking about Dyett hunger strike to save the school, part of the CBA coalition, getting that Woodlawn ordinance, the fight to save Mercy Hospital, the fight to get 500 units on Grove Park, leading on rent control, like all these things. Sustainable community school. You keep adding the things. And that's through both the Daley's, Rahm Emanuel, Lori Lightfoot, Brandon Johnson; that's what we're talking about, long term community power being built to address these things. And so that's the hope for us at NotMeWe to continue to do that regardless who the mayor is.

[01:15:30.940] - Dixon

And Bring Chicago Home, we hope, is a piece of a long list of things that ten years from now, 20 years from now, we can look back on. And not stuff like $2 billion stadiums for the White Sox to not win or like... Or more additions to- and Jerry Reinsdorf's not slick, like, we smart enough to watch you, bro. He buying up the parking lots around the United Center cause there's gonna be some newer shit. Not for Zach LaVine to go fucking six or 20, g, we not doing that. So we have to change the dynamic of what goes on in the city, and I think folks got to be clear, you have to have a role in it because even if you think you removed, you really not.

[01:16:08.660] - David

No, man, I just... Dixon, appreciate you sharing everything. Appreciate you giving all of our listeners context, tea, information, things to chew on. Because I do think, I think for me, I just think about our common man. And he's like, if all he seen was that 30 second ad and he knew nothing else, what- where was that opportunity to create empathy with that person? Because he clearly- you either give a fuck about people or you don't, cause it goes to that basis level, right? And I think I've quoted Jessie Fuentes on this more than enough times, but there's motherfuckers who are not on our side. And that is okay. That is okay. You wish all homeless people were 86. I hear you, you can say that, but that's not gonna happen. And what we need you to do is get out of our way so we can take care of our people. I've been hearing like, oh, well, Chicago, there's an exodus in Chicago. Good! Get the fuck out.

[01:17:04.670] - Caullen

Is it you? You can leave.

[01:17:05.230] - David

I'm saying. And so it's like, there's so many layers to this. And, again, appreciate you sharing and elaborating on some of those. But for all of our listeners, it's not that difficult. It's not that difficult, it's rather simple. And the more we can create these moments, whether that's through personal experience, whether that's through a podcast that you're listening, you're like, damn, I didn't- it's like that? Good. That's an opportunity for us to continue to delve into that. And as you mentioned, you named a bunch of orgs, there'll be all the info on the episode notes. But there's definitely ways to get in to support this work, to get in where you fit in, as always.

[01:17:43.580] - Dixon

I gotta-

[01:17:43.940] - David

Go ahead.

[01:17:44.540] - Dixon

Everybody in the group would kill me if I didn't- you could follow us on Instagram, Facebook: NotMeWe. You can follow- I mean, don't follow me. Cause I post the stuff we do, but I really- my page is for me, bro. But you could follow me too. All my stuff is just my name. I don't got nothing to hide. I just be on there talking about Jujutsu Kaisen, for real. Hannibal, I started watching Hannibal. They need to have-

[01:18:08.430] - Caullen

Wait, they have a series?

[01:18:09.430] - Dixon

Yeah.

[01:18:10.010] - Caullen

They got a series on now??

[01:18:11.110] - Dixon

You gotta tap in. It's from like 2013, but it's fire.

[01:18:13.740] - Caullen

You gotta pop into Whiskey 'n Watch, we talk about movies and shit, it's fun.

[01:18:16.440] - Dixon

Oh, that- listen... My nigga, that's the podcast y'all need me on. *laughing* I'm trying to get some hot takes.

[01:18:25.860] - Caullen

We got some nuanced lukewarm takes.

[01:18:27.820] - Dixon

Nah, I'm coming in hot fire. Molten, lava, the center of the sun ass tastes.

[01:18:35.620] - Caullen

*inaudible* was right. Whaaat?

[01:18:36.800] - Dixon

That's what I'm saying. The Ring, come on dog. The ring is your phone, brother, think about it. It's keeping you up at night, that phone. I'm sorry. You can follow us on, y'all, it is... For those listening it's 8:00 p.m. on Friday, we're dedicated to this work.

[01:18:53.330] - Caullen

Dedication, son.

[01:18:53.910] - Dixon

We gonna have some fun. Obamacba.org to learn about the campaign of the displacement against the Obama Center. What are the other tags, I'm trying to think.

[01:19:06.770] - David

And if nothing else, we'll make sure they're on the episode notes.

[01:19:08.730] - Dixon

Yeah. No, I gotta say it, follow Bring Chicago Home on all them pages. I seen Bring Chicago Home TikTok. I was like, When we get a TikTok? But they rocking them. The Toks is Tiking. I don't know, what else should I say? [crosstalk 01:19:25] .

[01:19:26.026] - Caullen

What'd you say?

[01:19:26.620] - Dixon

I'm an Aquarius. You know what I'm saying? Wear a size 9.5 shoe.

[01:19:33.380] - David

This motherfucker. His CashApp and Venmo will also be-

[01:19:35.910] - Dixon

Link in bio, type shit.

[01:19:38.920] - Dixon

Yeah, Linktree. No, I'm just playing. Thanks for having me, y'all. I don't know if we done, but thanks for having me.

[01:19:44.790] - Caullen

Yeah yeah yeah.

[01:19:45.310] - Dixon

We can still keep talking, but I'm just thanking you.

[01:19:47.600] - Caullen

The shoutouts are important. We appreciate you. We appreciate the campaigns, all the campaigns in related in the struggle. We appreciate all everyday Chicagoans just trying to make it. Trying to not shit in buckets. Yeah, this conversation- just thinking about this campaign and referendum and just the broader ramifications of it in Chicago and abroad; and just how we got here as a collective we, has been really inspiring for me this week. And just reading all these things about the actual referendum, learning more about it, and then just fucking hating the real estate lobby even more every day. It's simple, y'all, it's actually that simple. Do you want people to be housed and live in dignity and have homes and also that will help all society do better and thrive and be healthier?

[01:20:33.370] - Dixon

Period.

[01:20:34.060] - Caullen

If you're selfish, great, it'll help you. You know what I mean? In all the ways matter who you are, it's gonna help society.

[01:20:40.820] - Dixon

All the bank tenants.

[01:20:42.190] - Caullen

Fuck man-made homelessness. It was man-made, we don't have to live like this. We can choose a different future. And this is just one tool, one piece of the puzzle and how we do that, how we actualize that.

[01:20:53.420] - David

So vote yes by March 19.

[01:20:56.840] - Dixon

Oh, and my bad. And if you live in the 6th or 8th precincts- which is, if you know, you know- of the 7th ward, we have a referendum on the ballot about the CBA as well. Part two. So vote for that.

[01:21:11.430] - David

And from Bourbon 'n BrownTown, as always, stay Black, stay Brown, stay queer.

[01:21:16.130] - Caullen

Stay tuned. Stay turnt.

[01:21:17.500] - David

And we'll see you for the next one.

OUTRO

Outro music from Journey by Tobe Nwigwe.